Jack Basford medal 5145 
CEO & CTO 7 years 227 days ago (edited 7 years 221 days ago)
I got a moment to think about balancing some scenarios created by the migration today and came up with the following ideas. This might be quite dry reading, but I would like to get feedback before implementing any of this.
1) [DONE] Wipe all legacy designs for old iGP teams that have not yet joined a league. Their designs will be assigned as described in point 2 should they join a league. Teams that have already joined a league can keep their designs. By only applying this to currently leagueless teams I hope to avoid the scenario
described by Joey and others in this thread. By the time the next season comes around in all the leagues we should be back to equilibrium then.
2) [DONE] A new design balancing system when joining leagues - Any time a team joins a league or changes league their designs are reset, and they are awarded the number of design points they would have at the current stage of the season. E.g. If a team has a level 8 Design facility and the season has run 10 races they would get 80 design points. This could be reduced slightly to say 3/4 of the amount, if we feel it would give teams an unfair advantage to do all their testing in one league then change to another and just re-assign the same amount of points. I feel there should be some penalty for league-hopping, so wouldn't want it to be 100% of what they would have earned, personally.
3) [DONE] Uncap training, as lots of people have been confused by or complained about being capped to their level and recieving "no change" from training. Instead, allow "unlimited" training but slow it to a virtual standstill beyond the level cap. This will prevent "no change" messages and allow training of particular areas of skills beyond the level cap while still making it near impossible to go above the level cap overall.
4) [DONE] Offer dynamic level XP post-race instead of the current 40XP per race. E.g. default 40XP but up to 120XP for a team that is 5 levels or more lower than their competition. This way as the season(s) progress they will be gaining 3X the XP of their rivals and closing in on them every race, eventually levelling out.
I have bigger ideas for balancing the level caps in a league and a new spies system. I will create a separate suggestion thread for that to get your ideas and feedback when it is ready.
Yunus Unia Blunion medal 6117 7 years 227 days ago
I like these solutions. Fantastic proposals!
Sam Leo medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
Look's great. Just want to add about 3 section: If possible to uncap stamina as the talent is. Not sure 100% but i think values allot.
e.g. 10 level driver that has maxed all skills if cannot rise stamina would be much lower after while compared to a 15 level driver.
Again not sure 100% at the moment we can see for sure after all is more stable.
Thanks in advance
Jack Basford medal 5145 CEO & CTO 7 years 227 days ago
In my proposed system, all levels would be uncapped, free to be trained as high as you like. The catch is that the progress bar between gaining levels would move so slowly once the overall level reaches the level cap, that it is almost no change, but not quite. This will prevent the disappointment of training only to get "no change", always giving a level, but make it so slow that you can't progress beyond the level cap unfairly.
It would open the door for more quirky training routines too. Let's say you have a level cap of 5, well you could raise all physical skills to 10 and all mental skills to 6 and all driving ability skills to 4. As long as the overall level still comes to 5, it will give you freedom to work with the level cap instead of being limited by it.
Sam Leo medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
I see i thought it would stop after the overall was capped. looks good.
Jack Basford medal 5145 CEO & CTO 7 years 227 days ago
It doesn't stop, it just gets veeery slow. That's the idea, anyway. :D
Joey McLane medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
I disagree with all those solutions ! Wait ? No, seriously I think IGP is going into the right direction, cannot wait to see them applied, great job.
Nathan Smith medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
I'm not sure how to word this Jack, sorry, but here's a description of how I'd change the last point. It seems biased towards lower drivers.
I think it should be based on league average of the tier. So if everyone is average-level of 13 in Pro, it would mean everyone would get 130 XP. This would make the lower levels deal with the losses for now, and make the higher levels look for a better league, keeping more like-leveled drivers in the same league/tier. It would be 10 (or 5) XP for each average level.
I B medal 5496 7 years 227 days ago
Sounds good to me, re point 2 design points joining a league, it has to be less than level*races otherwise there's a potential loophole to abuse. (point 4 would open the loophole further).
If I can see it I'm sure others can...
Have you considered giving a number of design points out at the beginning of a season before Australia's race?
Alex Snead medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
Excellent ideas! However, I have a concern about #4.
Imagine this from the position of a brand new player. To upgrade headquarters you need cash and time or tokens. They are now harder to come by than previously when a huge cash surplus was very easy. If you level up faster, and the early levels go fast anyway, you'll need more cash and more tokens, which you won't find easy to get whilst you're learning the game... Unfortunately, although I love this idea, I think it will perpetuate the myth (for new players) that this is pay to win. It will not be, I understand that, but initially it will be pay to get close to competitive.
To be clear, as a level 9 racing mostly level 12 players, I love the idea. But I just think you need to be very cautious with the first five or six levels, (don't let them level up TOO fast, or give a small token boost as a present at the first couple of level up stages) and keep the brand new players in mind whilst trying to bring back the balance and fun for those of us who have been around for a while.
Alex Snead medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
I
Sounds good to me, re point 2 design points joining a league, it has to be less than level*races otherwise there's a potential loophole to abuse. (point 4 would open the loophole further).
If I can see it I'm sure others can...
Have you considered giving a number of design points out at the beginning of a season before Australia's race?
Players would have to enjoy losing to boost with that loophole!
Jason Prudhoe medal 5000 7 years 227 days ago
1. i agree on this.
2. would like to see a little more balance here but otherwise it is a fair suggestion.
3. i strongly disagree with turning the training into a grindathon, in addition the level cap isn't working either. i wouldn't mind another idea being thought of.
4. i think more room for scope on XP points could be worked on, right now the current XP per race makes next to no impact on anything, at the current rate i am going at at 40xp and 1100 points left it will take around 2 seasons to make that up to just level 11 and then there is the xp needed from level 11 to 12 and then 13 and so on. the current grindathon up the ranks only favors those managers from legacy, so it creates a minority up top like a pyramid of success, but i have seen other online management games like this that employ that systems and some of them are just barren because it is such a vicious thing, the one below can't make the inroads they need because the one on top will always be on top.
Jamie R medal 5000 7 years 225 days ago
Hi Jack,
I like all 3 solutions suggested.
But does this not raise the question over the "balancing of drivers" where we have had drives skills reduced artificially as we shouldnt have drivers better than our level, but now you are talking about reintroducing this as being possible again?
Jamie R medal 5000 7 years 225 days ago
In respect to suggestion 3. Will it hit the "veerrrry slow" the second it breaches your level or will it be more incremental. The higher the driver goes lvl wise the slower it gets?
And I really really like suggestion 4!
Jack Basford medal 5145 CEO & CTO 7 years 225 days ago
Jamie
In respect to suggestion 3. Will it hit the "veerrrry slow" the second it breaches your level or will it be more incremental. The higher the driver goes lvl wise the slower it gets?
It gets slower the closer it gets to your level, and that's how it currently works too.
About the balancing of drivers, it doesn't change anything we've done or whether that was necessary or not. It will still almost grind to a halt if the drivers "overall" level is the same as yours, but the individual levels can exceed your cap. E.g. you could train driving skills up to 15 and mental to 5 if you had a level cap of 10, since this would balance out.
Jamie R medal 5000 7 years 225 days ago
ah, ok. I understand better now how the whole balancing thing worked now.
i could lead into a load more questions, but not going to worry, the game is moving along nicely and I fear I am being overly negative!
Thanks for the updates.
Greg Broz medal 5000 7 years 225 days ago
1). This is fine, though it is just 1season the formerly inactive teams may have an advantage.
2). I like this, and the 3/4 of posdible points removes any advantage. Though I foresee teams moving leagues right after they upgrade their design facility.
3). I like this, though it may be frustrating to see the drivers lose 10% health to see 1-3% gain on training. (That is what you are going for right?)
4). This one is tricky. Like Alex mentioned if new managers level too quickly, they run the risk of easily going in debt or make people feel they need to spend tokens. It appears that many of us don't get the new finance system, so letting people level up too fast could just make matters worse and give the wrong idea. Perhaps some sort of blend of old fixed XP for first 4 or 5 levels (or for rookie tiers) that then leads to a dynamic XP after that point.
Jack Basford medal 5145 CEO & CTO 7 years 225 days ago
Greg, your understanding of point 3 is spot on. On point 4, I don't think new players are seeing the same issues with finances as those coming from the old game with salaries set in the old game. It was pointed out in another thread that when I decreased the levels of drivers, the salaries weren't decreased with it. In some cases this means managers are paying salaries for drivers levels higher than they should be (it's more expensive than it is to sign new ones). Considering some old teams have $1bn for a balance, though, I think most old teams can absorb it easily.
Greg B medal 5000 7 years 225 days ago
Thanks Jack.
I wish more people would give their input, but maybe that means they agree with your ideas.
dan ruglio medal 5000 7 years 225 days ago (edited 7 years 225 days ago)
1- yes 100%
2- yes 100% with that little penalty for moving is perfect. you still can battle.
3- I like training unlimited. but this can make some drivers really faster than others. maybe we can cap some abilities to the manager level when the season start. random abilities 2 or 3 abilities. i don't know, just not to let some drivers be so damn good everywhere. Maybe just for the managers with more level, to prevent them to go to the moon. :)
In case we still caping: How about before the 'no change', you give us the opportunity to asign that point in another place. That will help understand what can still be trained.
4. yes 100%
idea 5:when reseting cars after the season ends, we can make winners work harder, maybe some parts of their car with less design points. and give some bonus to the teams in the back.
idea 6: maybe tonight i'll post a new thread about 'Luck Factor' i think the game need a little bit of this. this could give the game more fun i think.
And thanks, i think we all agree the game is getting better and better. Still a lot of work to forget the older version but we are going in the right way ;)
