Ham v Max Pt. 2

So, you knew it had to happen, so here it is: Who was at fault for the Turn 1 incident yesterday? IMO, it was a racing incident with both drivers don't leaving enough room (Max in T1, Ham in T2) so it is 60/40 to Max cuz he lead Ham to not be able to leave enough room. Edit: just realised it can be rated the same like the Perez-Stroll thing in the sprint. But that just was something that should not happened, what a weird rule with leaving the outside car enough room but no one cares about it?

In my opinion, Verstappen had already earned enough space to drive alongside Hamilton. And that, although Hamilton aggressively after the pit stop simply squeezes in between, remains stubborn and ice cold without flinching Max into the out. Hamilton does not need to be surprised that something like this happens when you remain stubborn as a 7-time world champion and not a bit of consideration. I have looked enough at the camera angles and even if Max could have held back, the fault was in my eyes quite clearly with Hamilton. Because he could have defused the situation quite easily, with a small turn to the right, he had enough space.

But in the end, nothing changes. Both remain in the points where they are and only the constructors have changed, thanks to Bottas.

***UPDATE*** Verstappen has been given a 3 place grid penalty for Sochi. Stewards have said that "he was mainly at fault for the crash, therefore resulting in a 5 second time penalty what he can't serve this race. The nearest consequence is a 3 place penalty." Unbelievable.

I personally think that the 2nd incident (which resulted in both cars retiring) was caused mostly by Verstappen.

The reasoning being, there was an earlier incident in the race, on lap 1, where going into the 2nd chicane, Max ran Lewis off the track (left literally 0 cm when Lewis was alongside), and a collision was only avoided after Lewis smartly took avoiding action.

The 2nd incident is a repeat of the first incident, with only the cars the other way around. What Lewis should have done, was run Verstappen off the track (like how it was on lap 1) However, by leaving a cars width on the apex of the corner, it gave Verstappen, and some have said on purpose, the chance to take Lewis out.

Only Max will know if it was a deliberate move at the end of the day, and if it was, a 3 place grid drop nowhere near fits the action.

How i see racing incidents go under these principalities and i think the stewards also race director personnel also the same:

1. If A causes collision which eliminates B out of the race while A withstands the occasion and continues the race, then it is A fault. Which applies to the Silverstone incident as mentioned.


2. If A causes collision which B withstands the occasion and continues the race while A breaks down itself, then nothing to go to the race directions.


3. If A causes collision with both B and A withstand and continue the race, then there will be investigation of plenty but may likely to be anulled


4. If A causes collision which eliminates both B and A itself out, the blame likely goes to A but should be handled with considerable punishment


5. If an unexpected incident happens to eliminates both A and B out, the blame goes to nobody. Likely motorbike crash which takes out another rider

I'm in behalf of Verstappen but i would say the Monza clash was Verstappen fault. It's not too big of a rebuttal if i say Lewis didn't give space which his position is likely the racing line everyone uses to lap around Monza especially the Retifillio chicane. However what i dislike is both of their race are ruined but Max was given a 3 grid slot penalty. Instead the penalty given for the Silverstone incident which Lewis "eliminated" Max out of the race was merely a 10 second time penalty. Lewis who withstands the impact of the collision went on to win the race, slashing 25 points out of 34 of Max's lead. That judgement given by the stewards is completely non-existentially logical to give Max that penalty when both out rather than perhaps on Silverstone should be a 10 second additional race time penalty or maybe 10 point reduction. Ultimately, if it is cruel enough, he should have been black flagged for winning while taking out championship rival of the race...

It does not make sense at all, that when someone would get a 10 second penalty but can't drive further, will get the penalty next race is completly unnecessary. I mean, you could argue if 10 seconds are 3 grids, but hopefully Verstappen can recover, after Hamilton mistake (still my opinion). I'm not Verstappen or Hamilton fan, but I do dislike Hamilton more then any other driver in F1, alone for being such an a*sh*le on track after winning 7 WMs.

There is nothing to argue about fairness in giving penalties, there you are completly right.

But this accident I really can't understand, how blind someone can be to see, how the situation goes on.
I watched so often the replay until now and can't see how that should be Verstappen fault, but that
shows that not every steward is capable of doing a good job.

Lol so your opinion is meant to be the 100% accurate point of view?

Just the way you think the stewards are wrong is also the way the stewards think you are wrong, and imo experience usually trumps opinions considering they have access to more facts/data than you.

I may be stubborn, I won't dany that. But only because in my opinion, every view I got so see about different cameras were confirming my first thoughts after the accident happend. But for myself I'm just a little bit mad about giving Max such a penalty. Just hope he recover from that and beats clean Hamilton in the next races.

Ok, this is getting to professor levels? So, we can agree that Max was at fault, but we can't agree if the penalty was enough if I understand this correctly. But maybe it would be right by the FIA (or anyone else,maybe the teams) to try to calm down the situation. If not, things like that will happen again, and I can already see that there will be another crash involving them at Brazil because there will be the next sprint quali stuff?

Both at fault and Max did get the penalty, there I agree hehe. I won't discuss any further, cause I won't argue with the stewards. I just don't hope they make each other more angry. I like more clean races. 

I agree with this...







The reason a penalty given is the consequence of the incident. I mean as i said on my point of view number 2, a bit of an argue but it may not matter for too long if those involve continue on, like back on Alonso Vs Massa turn 6 2007 Nurburgring GP. As of Monza, Max took out Lewis, ruined both races and they didn't finish. The verdict of giving Max that penalty was right after the race, far after the occasion took place. Because there are things to consider. And as for Silverstone if Max had continued just fine as Lewis, then the incident still there. Then afterwards from out of nowhere Hamilton was given a 5 second penalty for causing a collision while Max kept going. The effect of the incident is therefore not neglectable. That's why either Lewis of Copse corner Silverstone or Max of Retifillio corner Monza given the penalty...

It's official:

Max Verstappen was 2nd into Turn 1, Turn 2 at Monza, and also 2nd into Kelly Piquet ??

This is all wrapped up, Let's turn our heads into Sochi. Regardless, whatever happens this season will be put to the debrief for all on track and including us the race fans...