Jack Basford medal 5549 CEO & CTO 7 years 108 days ago (edited 7 years 107 days ago)
It was brought to our attention on my most recent blog that the Auto-kick feature had some unintended consequences in some leagues where managers had been eagerly anticipating promotion, only to have enough accounts removed from the league to de-activate promotion mid-season.
To account for this and the potential unfairness of the situation, I have relaxed the rules on promotion and relegation throughout September. Until October 1st if a league host sets them to "On" then they will always be on. There will be no requirement for the league to be half-full. This will allow people to promote freely during this time. It is only a temporary measure to assist people affected by the auto-kick feature.
After some further discussion, obviously this is not the ideal solution. It would create just as many problems as it solved, so I've decided to roll back this change and we will process individual cases if you email us at support@igpgames.com. We will promote people on a case-by-case basis who felt that they should have promoted but were stopped by the introduction of auto-kick. So everyone will get what they wanted regardless.
I have also started a broader discussion on populating all league tiers with active players, which can be found here:
https://igpmanager.com/forum-thread/8866 Jamie R medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Thats brilliant Jack. Thanks.
Javier Castilla Martin medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Is it possible to increase the amount of positions to promote/relegate? For example, in my season we are going to promote with only two ppl to elite. It is going to be a boring season. And if is always two people only, then it will be boring 3,4 seasons.
Yunus Unia Blunion medal 5411 7 years 108 days ago
Javier
Is it possible to increase the amount of positions to promote/relegate? For example, in my season we are going to promote with only two ppl to elite. It is going to be a boring season. And if is always two people only, then it will be boring 3,4 seasons.
If you create a new league you can get 4 to promote into Elite. But it has to be a season that ends before September is over.
Thomas O'Malley medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago (edited 7 years 108 days ago)
Having only two people promote up into an empty Elite tier seems like a problem in general, to be honest.
I'm building my league from the ground up, and it's taken seven seasons to even unlock promotion for the following reasons.
-Two of the promoted Rookies from season 1 had already effectively dropped to inactive status by the end of the season, the low standards for first season point gain allowing them to remain in the top four. The other (aside from myself) immediately left the league upon promoting into Pro, likely because there was no immediate prospect of further promotion.
-Since then, approximately half of all players promoted through my Rookie league have either immediately left upon promotion, gone inactive when they don't make scoring positions, or outright left for greener pastures when they start losing to next season's Rookies.
I've finally reached 8+ active players (up to 10 thanks to players attempting to find alternatives to their now-empty dead leagues) and I'm facing the prospect of spending next season in Elite with only one other team for competition and having the empty space tank my Rep score for two or three seasons, assuming I retain enough Pro league players to keep promotion active.
On another note, I feel like the issue this thread is actually about is being handled wrong.
Throughout my time actively managing a league (anyone who's been inactive for more than half of their time in the league, or just inactive for 10 days in a row without notice gets the boot) I've noticed that in the beginning people were effectively being promoted through Rookie just for being active, and without sufficient knowledge or experience to compete at a higher standard.
Any player who was going to be promoted on the backs of inactive players in dead leagues should not be handed a promotion like this. It's not "unfair" that they suddenly weren't going to get a promotion, because they shouldn't have been getting a promotion from a dead league in the first place. The number of active players in these leagues did not change when the autokick took place, aside from those who left because there were no longer enough active players to allow promotion.
I cringe when I see Elite leagues full of half-trained 1-talent Default British drivers just left as they are after being purchased through the transfer market.
[EDIT]:
After reading the blog post I'm aware that the -aim- of this is to allow players access to already established Elite leagues.
However if the autokick script remains active this will not be a temporary problem, as there's no guarantee that both players promoted through Rookie each season will remain active and in the league afterward. (See above, regarding players leaving because they're not earning points.)
It's easy to pull in 1-4 players per day in Rookie, but getting 2 more Pro slots filled takes 18 days. If Elite continues to take as many as Rookie shuffles in, still-populating Elite leagues -will- have their supply cut off by the autokicker or just players leaving.
I can propose a solution to this one.
If an Elite league contains players, but Pro contains less than 8, promote just the champion from Pro, allowing it to have a net gain while still bringing progress into Elite.
Maybe even promote three from Rookie if Elite exists and Pro is undersized.
Francis Drake medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago (edited 7 years 108 days ago)
I' m on the same side of Thomas.
I'm the host of a small league, and we were just in 3 players for the last Pro season. Soon the actual season will end and we will be promoted again as Elite drivers.... And we will be alone again doing very boring solo racing for most of the time...
And also the few rookies promoted will be in our same situation as Pro.
So I really think that the host should have the power at least to stop promotions every time that he thinks it's needed, just for the single class, cause if I stop all the promotions we'll be forever alone...
Thomas O'Malley medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Francis
I' m on the same side of Thomas.
I'm the host of a small league, and we were just in 3 players for the last Pro season. Soon the actual season will end and we will be promoted again as Elite drivers.... And we will be alone again doing very boring solo racing for most of the time...
And also the few rookies promoted will be in our same situation as Pro.
So I really think that the host should have the power at least to stop promotions every time that he thinks it's needed.
The host can stop promotions, but your league's problem is that you can't stop promotion into Elite without -also- stopping promotion into Pro.
This is just screwing your league over in a different way.
Francis Drake medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Thomas
Francis
I' m on the same side of Thomas.
I'm the host of a small league, and we were just in 3 players for the last Pro season. Soon the actual season will end and we will be promoted again as Elite drivers.... And we will be alone again doing very boring solo racing for most of the time...
And also the few rookies promoted will be in our same situation as Pro.
So I really think that the host should have the power at least to stop promotions every time that he thinks it's needed.
The host can stop promotions, but your league's problem is that you can't stop promotion into Elite without -also- stopping promotion into Pro.
This is just screwing your league over in a different way.
Yep... I re-read my comment and I was editing right in the moment you were posting trying to make it more clear...
Thats it... I really don't know how to act to save my league...
Thomas O'Malley medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
I hope something is worked out. Looking at your league and doing some quick math your Elite league will be stuck at 3 teams for at least FOUR seasons with the current promotion rules.
Unless you let your Pro league be stuck at 3 for another season and give up the three second-season promotion slots from Rookie.
Thomas O'Malley medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Francis
Thats it... I really don't know how to act to save my league...
I've got it! All three Pro players leave the league before the end of the season, then rejoin next season and just deal with the league change penalties...
Javier Castilla Martin medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Francis
I' m on the same side of Thomas.
I'm the host of a small league, and we were just in 3 players for the last Pro season. Soon the actual season will end and we will be promoted again as Elite drivers.... And we will be alone again doing very boring solo racing for most of the time...
And also the few rookies promoted will be in our same situation as Pro.
So I really think that the host should have the power at least to stop promotions every time that he thinks it's needed, just for the single class, cause if I stop all the promotions we'll be forever alone...
We experience the same problem. I like the sollution aswell. Let me stop de promotion by button for only 1 league.
Jack Basford medal 5549 CEO & CTO 7 years 108 days ago (edited 7 years 108 days ago)
These things are never simple. :) This is why we often don't intervene in such ways, because it quickly cascades in a game that is based on so much data (the butterfly effect). One tweak causes another two tweaks to be needed, then that causes another four tweaks and so on.
In this case, simply kicking people for being inactive (seems simple enough) becomes disabling normal promotion rules, becomes needing to set promotion rules per-tier, which inevitably will become cases of leagues breaking and overpopulating in a single tier, e.g. Pro fills up then after promotion is over the population limit. Then it gets into writing some special rule, where if Pro is too full Promotion and Relegation get disabled, but maybe Rookie was going to have promotions then it becomes disabled because it will overpopulate Pro, etc. etc. Not good.
Maybe the best solution is actually for me to restore the normal rules and people can write to us on a case-by-case basis if they feel they should have been promoted. Then we can just manually process those requests and help those players out who originally complained of not being able to promote.
Regarding the populating of leagues in the higher tiers, we'll need to work something out for that. It's always a compromise. I'll create another thread on the subject so we can all give our opinions.
Giu Ronini medal 5000 7 years 108 days ago
Hi.
What do you think about creating Bots Team able to use strategies just like a real player to help empty leagues ? These Bots will just wait for a real player to become manager of the team.
So; my idea is to use Bots team as a vessel for the players to come in order to help people who are struggling with empty leagues.
But i know that it is not an optimal solution ...
Marcelo Britos De Paolis medal 5000 7 years 107 days ago
Its a shame. Our league is broken now.
The only two teams we have in profesional go to elite to play again face to face.
New 2 teams promoted from rookie to profesional will not have the opportunity to be promoted directly in a lot of seasons because new season finish day 2 of october :( so they need wait a lot for new teams come from rookie. I take a look and cant change schedule of the season to make it ends before 1 october now.
There is some way for descend to professional these 2 teams that were recently promoted to elite?
Kar Pt medal 5000 7 years 107 days ago
Thanks Jack. It is right move. Unfortunately timing was unlucky for people in World Racing Championship, because season has ended yesterday so managers weren’t promoted. That’s life.
I’m reading the topic and I feel that’s the problem without optimal solution. Leagues are different, hosts are different, players are different and everybody operate in their own way. It is difficult to make everybody happy. Maybe you should think about leagues revolution and creating general league system like in football managers (managerzone, hattrick). I know that would destroy one of the most important advantages of iGP - league freedom, but maybe that’s a solution for promotion and relegation.
Javier Castilla Martin medal 5000 7 years 107 days ago
Marcelo
Its a shame. Our league is broken now.
The only two teams we have in profesional go to elite to play again face to face.
New 2 teams promoted from rookie to profesional will not have the opportunity to be promoted directly in a lot of seasons because new season finish day 2 of october :( so they need wait a lot for new teams come from rookie. I take a look and cant change schedule of the season to make it ends before 1 october now.
There is some way for descend to professional these 2 teams that were recently promoted to elite?
Same for our league. We are going tot play 1vs1 for 3 upcoming seasons in elite...
Kevin Bissell medal 5000 Super Mod 7 years 107 days ago
League freedom? Hah! Move league and the penalties are crippling (as I said when I moved to MJL on April 1st). Move at the wrong time and it can take 4 seasons to recover. If the penalties were reviewed such that people genuinely moving to a more active league or to a league with a more suitable race time BETWEEN SEASONS are not penalised so badly whereas people with high DP who jump mid season are penalised then wouldn't this lead to more active leagues and better populated leagues? At the moment nobody moves because of the penalties.
Jack Basford medal 5549 CEO & CTO 7 years 107 days ago
I've opened a discussion on some ideas I had over here:
https://igpmanager.com/forum-thread/8866 James Greer medal 5000 7 years 107 days ago
It's been unrelaxed again? league page no longer shows 2 moving up from pro to elite.
:D just read edit at top now.
Fox Eliot medal 5000 7 years 89 days ago
What should I need to be promoted to PRO? I am the only one active as rookie, all other teams but one have been deactivated.