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Engine replacements

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medal 5000
6 years 220 days ago
Whilst on a roll for improvements.....

Changing Engine has no penalties and cooling becomes a redundant stat.

Would it be worth adding a 5 or 10 place grid penalty for changing engines?
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medal 5886
6 years 220 days ago
I'm speaking as a player, and my vote is no.
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medal 5000
6 years 220 days ago
Either there should be no penalties for changing engines (means that you don't have to manage and conserve them if you have the tokens to buy extra) or an engine limit has to be placed to allow poorer lower levelled teams to keep up for the whole season. This is something that has been applied in Formula 1, but as people keep repeating this game is not supposed to fully simulate F1.

I'm still undecided about this but it doesn't really matter what I say since I'm going to stop playing iGP competitively...
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medal 5001 Super Mod
6 years 220 days ago
You're already penalised for changing engines. You are supplied with sufficient free engines to renew on average every second race. If you want to replace engines more often than this you have to buy them with tokens.
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medal 5886
6 years 220 days ago
Grid penalties aren't a good idea for anything either.

As in real life, the drivers are punished for the constructor's choice.

Penalizing points would make more sense, but don't penalize the driver's points.
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medal 5000
6 years 220 days ago
someone could take advantage of that to change engine every time you put H, so losing 5 or 10 positions would not affect you too much.
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medal 5000
6 years 169 days ago
Yunus
I'm speaking as a player, and my vote is no.

I will speak as a player that doesn't want to play a pay-to-win game. Just to make the difference lol
Kevin
You are supplied with sufficient free engines to renew on average every second race. If you want to replace engines more often than this you have to buy them with tokens.

That suggestion is interesting to penalize players who buy engines with tokens...
Yunus
Grid penalties aren't a good idea for anything either.
As in real life, the drivers are punished for the constructor's choice.
Penalizing points would make more sense, but don't penalize the driver's points.

In real life, don't drivers benefit of a more powerful car by changing their engine ? Or a more reliable car by changing gearbox or whatever ?
Why penalizing points would be more fair ? If you are 10 on the grid, you finish 10 because you are less powerfull than the 9 others, we take you back points because you changed engine ? And what if you are only 10 in the league ? You are penalized because you were hoping to do something else but 10th ? If you take grid penalties, you will start 10 as ever, and finish 10... as ever, and that's all.
You can't compare with real life. In iGP, an engine that is just doing his second race is about 0.5sec slower ! (Maybe when you level up that gap decreases and change engine every race is not useful, I don't know.)
But let's say you are a new player playing against another new player but who buys engine... You will quit the game very soon because losing by so much can be discouraging...

To my mind, you have to penalize players who use paid with tokens engines. Just to be clear with the other players.
10-place penalty and the others know what you are doing... It allows to race fair during the season.
And finally, what's the matter if everyone pays for new engines ? Everyone has 10-place penalty and it's just a normal grid...

Rory
someone could take advantage of that to change engine every time you put H, so losing 5 or 10 positions would not affect you too much.

Yeah, starting last of 32 with H is almost the same thing than starting 11th on SS, especially in the European GP... (Spoiler alert : No it's not lol)
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medal 5001 Super Mod
6 years 169 days ago
I think the balance at the moment is about right. For some users a small investment of real money every now and then to buy tokens helps to remain competitive. In old IGP you needed to subscribe to get that advantage (2D viewer) in this version a few extra tokens helps but is not absolutely essential.
If you actively penalise players from spending real money how long do you think the game will survive? The developers have to earn a living.
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medal 5000
6 years 169 days ago
Grid penalty is ok, but not driver constructor point
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medal 4998 Moderator
6 years 169 days ago
Kevin
I think the balance at the moment is about right. For some users a small investment of real money every now and then to buy tokens helps to remain competitive. In old IGP you needed to subscribe to get that advantage (2D viewer) in this version a few extra tokens helps but is not absolutely essential.
If you actively penalise players from spending real money how long do you think the game will survive? The developers have to earn a living.
I agree. It's not even necessary to buy a single token to be able to use a fresh engine every race, the sponsor provides way more than enough token for that and the other necessities of the team managing. As long as you don't let finances getting out of hand or want to accelerate team progress that is.

That said, the suggestion of a penalty after every engine change did intrigue me but in the end I can't think of many situations where the tactical decision of not changing engine sounds really worth a try, except in 25% races perhaps, and even less so doing a 3rd race with the same engine. Thus just having at least half of the grid penalized every race and the slower cars starting in front doesn't sounds like a good idea.
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medal 5000
6 years 169 days ago (edited 6 years 168 days ago)
Kevin
If you actively penalise players from spending real money how long do you think the game will survive? The developers have to earn a living.

Like I said on an other post in the forum I totally agree with you. You can't just give token everytime. But I'm going to develop that point by responding to Frank.
Frank
It's not even necessary to buy a single token to be able to use a fresh engine every race, the sponsor provides way more than enough token for that and the other necessities of the team managing. As long as you don't let finances getting out of hand or want to accelerate team progress that is.

I agree with you, and that's why I think you can't agree with Kevin lol
Fact is, our second sponsor the one that gives tokens should not give 1, 2 or 3 tokens, but 0, 1 or 2. The less tokens are given, the more players will buy them and the more developers will live thanks to the game.
Frank
I can't think of many situations where the tactical decision of not changing engine sounds really worth a try

That's exactly what this suggestion is about. If you think you have to change engine every race, above your provided engines by your supplier, you are grid penalized. And then, you will have real strategy by whether you change your engine or not, is it worth to get penalized or keep the same engine ? Strategy.
Frank
Thus just having at least half of the grid penalized every race and the slower cars starting in front doesn't sounds like a good idea.

Yes, this is why you like to play a pay to win game, I guess...
Pay to stay easily in front. No management, no skill, nothing.
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medal 6216 Super Mod
6 years 169 days ago
About this, I quote [url="https://igpmanager.com/app/d=profile&user=29217"]Kevin[/url]: "The developers have to earn a living."
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medal 5000
6 years 169 days ago
I agree with that !

But if you are penalized by 10 places, will you stop buying engines ? Or is it worth the 10-place to change the engine every race ?
And if you want to be competitive, will you really stop buying engines ? Will you take the risk another manager still changes his engine every race ?

And as it has been said, you are given already enough tokens to play comfortably without spending money. So do you really want developpers to earn a living ?
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medal 4998 Moderator
6 years 168 days ago (edited 6 years 168 days ago)
Mini_Glue
Kevin
If you actively penalise players from spending real money how long do you think the game will survive? The developers have to earn a living.

Like I said on an other post in the forum I totally agree with you. You can't just give token everytime. But I'm going to develop that point by responding to Frank.
Frank
It's not even necessary to buy a single token to be able to use a fresh engine every race, the sponsor provides way more than enough token for that and the other necessities of the team managing. As long as you don't let finances getting out of hand or want to accelerate team progress that is.

I agree with you, and that's why I think you can't agree with Kevin lol
Fact is, our second sponsor the one that gives tokens should not give 1, 2 or 3 tokens, but 0, 1 or 2. The less tokens are given, the more players will buy them and the more developers will live thanks to the game.
No, I think I'm more in line with Kevin here. If you manage well you get along without buying token and those that want to have it a little bit more easy going, or keeping their staff a little bit longer and so on, are the some people that remain competetive with spending some money buying token. If the sponsor output is lowered then everyone would have to buy token to remain competetive which in turn would make the game pay2win. Kevin is right, the game is nicely balanced there, given that the devs earn enough right now which I hope they do.

Mini_Glue
Frank
I can't think of many situations where the tactical decision of not changing engine sounds really worth a try

That's exactly what this suggestion is about. If you think you have to change engine every race, above your provided engines by your supplier, you are grid penalized. And then, you will have real strategy by whether you change your engine or not, is it worth to get penalized or keep the same engine ? Strategy.
Well, again no. First the suggestion, at least as it is written in the OP, is about a penalty for every engine change, not only the token ones. Second, as I, at least wanted to, said, I don't think that the performance penalty of the engine makes it even worth considering to use it twice. So it's just a grid penalty almost (I'm not entirely sure about Monaco here) every race and, if I'm right about the performance, that's true for everyone who wants to be competetive. Qualifying is often quite the lottery anyway.

Mini_Glue
Frank
Thus just having at least half of the grid penalized every race and the slower cars starting in front doesn't sounds like a good idea.

Yes, this is why you like to play a pay to win game, I guess...
Pay to stay easily in front. No management, no skill, nothing.

No, I play iGP because it's not pay2win and I want it to remain that way. I just think that the situation I described above would be just kind of silly. The only real effect I see is using hards as starting tyres is getting some boost.
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