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Promotion/demotion

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medal 5197
236 days ago (Last edited by Igor Barinoff 236 days ago)
Before prejudicially rejecting an offer, read it carefully.  Provide promotions/demotions at the owner's discretion.  There will be several rules for this: 1. Promotion/relegation will work between seasons.  2. This system will work like giving friendship.  A member who is sent a promotion/demotion request can accept or ignore it.  3. The participant must complete 20 races.  4.  The host must provide a report and state the reason for the league member's promotion/demotion.  The report can be sent to the moderators, they should know.  This is in case of inadequate hosts.
The league host must have a valid account.  I have seen several bogus accounts on league hosts.
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medal 5444
236 days ago (Last edited by Timothy Barry 236 days ago)
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...
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medal 5350
236 days ago
Having the power to promote/demote another player is a terrible idea, but with the current league system, I think in some cases there is no point in continuing to play in the assigned tier, so it would make sense to be able to change tiers instead of just being there, waiting for a full season to end. For example a level 12 account racing in elite or a level 20 racing in pro.
For me it would have been better if the mods didn't stop manual promotions and relegations. The leagues in rookie and pro may be fuller but most are cars without setup or bots, anyone can confirm this by opening any random league and checking the last race result 
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medal 5197
236 days ago

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?
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medal 5444
236 days ago
Igor

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?



Meritocracy, my friend 

Your second man should have taken the promotion and got the experience of fighting for survival in Elite.  
Your Idea will lead to worse than what happened here.  Especially with unscrupulous groups and hosts, giving any old toot as reasons to promote or relegate people.

My idea can be modified, though.  By allowing for a pro or rookie manager to not leave the tier by request to mods, via the league host.  That would also mean that the highest positioned relegatee from the division above stay up.  But ONLY if a manager is of too low (Level 0-5 For a rookie, level 5-15 for a Pro)
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medal 5197
236 days ago

Timothy
Igor

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?



Meritocracy, my friend 

Your second man should have taken the promotion and got the experience of fighting for survival in Elite.  
Your Idea will lead to worse than what happened here.  Especially with unscrupulous groups and hosts, giving any old toot as reasons to promote or relegate people.

My idea can be modified, though.  By allowing for a pro or rookie manager to not leave the tier by request to mods, via the league host.  That would also mean that the highest positioned relegatee from the division above stay up.  But ONLY if a manager is of too low (Level 0-5 For a rookie, level 5-15 for a Pro)



Very little for professionals. In elite groups, competition starts at level 20.
md-quotelink
medal 5444
235 days ago

Igor

Timothy
Igor

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?



Meritocracy, my friend 

Your second man should have taken the promotion and got the experience of fighting for survival in Elite.  
Your Idea will lead to worse than what happened here.  Especially with unscrupulous groups and hosts, giving any old toot as reasons to promote or relegate people.

My idea can be modified, though.  By allowing for a pro or rookie manager to not leave the tier by request to mods, via the league host.  That would also mean that the highest positioned relegatee from the division above stay up.  But ONLY if a manager is of too low (Level 0-5 For a rookie, level 5-15 for a Pro)



Very little for professionals. In elite groups, competition starts at level 20.



Oops!  I forgot to say the words, "for example".  Sorry.


But...

My example for the idea is more to give managers at lower levels experience of Pro and Elite tiers, before they get "properly" experienced to fight for points.  I mean, have you not had the experience of somebody of a way lower level than yourself getting good results?
md-quotelink
medal 5197
235 days ago

Timothy

Igor

Timothy
Igor

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?



Meritocracy, my friend 

Your second man should have taken the promotion and got the experience of fighting for survival in Elite.  
Your Idea will lead to worse than what happened here.  Especially with unscrupulous groups and hosts, giving any old toot as reasons to promote or relegate people.

My idea can be modified, though.  By allowing for a pro or rookie manager to not leave the tier by request to mods, via the league host.  That would also mean that the highest positioned relegatee from the division above stay up.  But ONLY if a manager is of too low (Level 0-5 For a rookie, level 5-15 for a Pro)



Very little for professionals. In elite groups, competition starts at level 20.



Oops!  I forgot to say the words, "for example".  Sorry.


But...

My example for the idea is more to give managers at lower levels experience of Pro and Elite tiers, before they get "properly" experienced to fight for points.  I mean, have you not had the experience of somebody of a way lower level than yourself getting good results?



Yes, fighting for points is possible when between 20/25 levels. When the difference is greater, there will be no struggle.
md-quotelink
medal 5444
234 days ago

Igor

Timothy

Igor

Timothy
Igor

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?



Meritocracy, my friend 

Your second man should have taken the promotion and got the experience of fighting for survival in Elite.  
Your Idea will lead to worse than what happened here.  Especially with unscrupulous groups and hosts, giving any old toot as reasons to promote or relegate people.

My idea can be modified, though.  By allowing for a pro or rookie manager to not leave the tier by request to mods, via the league host.  That would also mean that the highest positioned relegatee from the division above stay up.  But ONLY if a manager is of too low (Level 0-5 For a rookie, level 5-15 for a Pro)



Very little for professionals. In elite groups, competition starts at level 20.



Oops!  I forgot to say the words, "for example".  Sorry.


But...

My example for the idea is more to give managers at lower levels experience of Pro and Elite tiers, before they get "properly" experienced to fight for points.  I mean, have you not had the experience of somebody of a way lower level than yourself getting good results?



Yes, fighting for points is possible when between 20/25 levels. When the difference is greater, there will be no struggle.



But, what about that particular struggle.  You are saying that there is absoloutely no point in the struggle to stay up.  The struggle to stay up may very well not involve getting points, for many teams.  And if you can stay up as a team that may be 10 levels lower than those struggling for points, then you are definitely doing something right.  It seems that you do not want to give teams such a chance at all!  Now, that is dictatorial behaviour in my opinion...
md-quotelink
medal 5197
234 days ago

Timothy

Igor

Timothy

Igor

Timothy
Igor

Timothy
Personally, I believe in the current meritocracy of promotion and demotion.  I think that you have to earn promotion over a season.  And if you are poor enough on track to gain demotion.  That is perfectly fair.

Although I understand the fact that leagues may not be as full as some would like and that puts paid to automatic promotion and demotion, there is still a feeling that I have, that if we do gain such a power, hosts may become autocratic, cronyistic or even dictatorial in  behaviour and demote or promote people for made up, yet fair sounding reasons.  This is the main reason that I do not like this idea as you state it.

I would suggest, like for race re-runs, that only mods should be allowrd to do promotions from Pro and Rookie.  And only if requested by a league host and if managers are at a competitive level good enough to compete at the promoted level...



Please solve my situation when it happened not so long ago. There are two leaders in the professional group, one wants to join the elite, the other does not, because he has a low level. It is not possible to disable up/down. Answer: a player with a low level quit playing until the end of the season to be overtaken by the next in the group. This tactic is also no better than dictatorship?



Meritocracy, my friend 

Your second man should have taken the promotion and got the experience of fighting for survival in Elite.  
Your Idea will lead to worse than what happened here.  Especially with unscrupulous groups and hosts, giving any old toot as reasons to promote or relegate people.

My idea can be modified, though.  By allowing for a pro or rookie manager to not leave the tier by request to mods, via the league host.  That would also mean that the highest positioned relegatee from the division above stay up.  But ONLY if a manager is of too low (Level 0-5 For a rookie, level 5-15 for a Pro)



Very little for professionals. In elite groups, competition starts at level 20.



Oops!  I forgot to say the words, "for example".  Sorry.


But...

My example for the idea is more to give managers at lower levels experience of Pro and Elite tiers, before they get "properly" experienced to fight for points.  I mean, have you not had the experience of somebody of a way lower level than yourself getting good results?



Yes, fighting for points is possible when between 20/25 levels. When the difference is greater, there will be no struggle.



But, what about that particular struggle.  You are saying that there is absoloutely no point in the struggle to stay up.  The struggle to stay up may very well not involve getting points, for many teams.  And if you can stay up as a team that may be 10 levels lower than those struggling for points, then you are definitely doing something right.  It seems that you do not want to give teams such a chance at all!  Now, that is dictatorial behaviour in my opinion...



When a member moves to elite and faces big levels, then he asks me if he can go back to pro. I have contacted the support group, it is not possible now. From now on, I ask people and explain what will happen to the elite. A person himself decides what to do, I only help as much as possible. I can raise, but not downgrade.
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