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Drivers Health & Car Damage at Quick Races

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medal 5000
4 years 314 days ago
It seems to me we have at best, a case of unintended consequences, at worst an underhanded way of raising revenue dressed up as a response to player demand.
I'm prepared, at present, to go on the more optimistic interpretation of the Quick Races Clusterf**k. (QRC).
There are many in my league who are taking a less charitable approach to the whole thing. The iGP team, need to set their stall out...If QRC has simply not been rolled out right, change it, or pull it until the issues raised in discussion have been addressed, if QRC is a move to a more 'pay to win' approach, brought on by financial pressure, come clean and say so.
If this is let slide I can see many players voting with their feet leaving the game poorer in every respect.
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medal 5000
4 years 314 days ago (Last edited by Aaahhhh Haaaaaaa 4 years 314 days ago)
I have concluded after doing a few Quick Races that it proves to costly on tokens and feel it's a clever way of draining tokens. League Races and Quick Races need to be completely separate from each other. Those that want to just carry on like before should have that option. You should be able to opt in and opt out of Quick Races. Why half the xp in league races and make people do quick races to compensate and then not gain any tokens from it. Whatever you do with xp has to be duplicated with tokens. You can't expect players to race without gaining the resources needed to keep the team running. If you want me to play Quick Races then give me tokens to replace the engines and parts, until then Quick Race will just be an annoying button on my homepage. 
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medal 5145 CEO & CTO
4 years 313 days ago (Last edited by Jack Basford 4 years 313 days ago)
This is actually quite simple when you boil it down to the fundamentals, minus all the speculation. Here's what I'm seeing: We don’t want QR to give out more level XP than we can earn in league races, and we want to do QR without running out of parts/engines. We can definitely make both of those things happen and actually, overall that was always our intention.

So, here’s what I propose:

  1. We implement a daily cap on level XP gains, so the amount of XP a player can gain in a day is fixed. We set the cap at the maximum amount you can gain from a league race. This way XP from leagues can be restored to what it was, and QR can’t give more XP than the most you can get from league racing.

  2. We restore driver healing for active teams that are not in leagues (this will keep server load reduced vs having it operational on all inactive teams)

  3. We are introducing daily rewards very soon, and this will issue free parts, engines and more for logins – this should also ease the concerns on whether you need to use parts etc. to do QR, especially as wear is greatly reduced in QR.

  4. Increase the number of parts given to a 2-car team so that they aren't thinly spread on parts.



As a side note, what I find interesting about these discussions is the mob mentality they build. I'm not even referring to a phenomenon on our forum - all game developers deal with it, and more broadly the internet as a whole. One minute we’re having a simple discussion about balancing a game, and the next we're in a melodrama of speculation and threats.

I'm going on a tangent, but as people we react to the most sensational information, and I’m sure the most shocking story that grabs eyeballs is that the evil developers have plotted a big money-grab, but the reality is far more mundane. We are doing our best to introduce a new feature and balancing the mechanics behind it with your feedback. At the same time, we try to be as transparent as we can and say, “look, we labelled it as a beta because we will develop it – this is not final”, and “we have to operate within certain constraints which are hard to appreciate as a player, those constraints are…”.

The things I see highlighted in this thread so far are unintended consequences of the update, as Dave rightly suggested above. Our intentions can only be judged by how we respond to feedback on the update. Until then, what is or isn't intended, especially when it comes to the delicate act of balancing, is not clear. It is genuinely difficult to understand all the consequences and interactions of every update to the game. Our beta testers told us they were totally happy with the current balance, their feedback informed that, we didn't spring it on you out of nowhere. Now everyone else's feedback will inform the next updates.

Another simple example of unintended consequences is healing outside of leagues. The only reason we ever stopped healing outside of leagues is because our audience grew massively, and healing all the inactive accounts with the active ones slowed the system down and impacted the experience for active players. Until now, there were not really any active players outside of leagues. It was an oversight that we didn't re-activate it for active accounts outside of leagues who want to do QR. But of course, in no time, speculation starts that it was a mechanic activated as part of the money-grab ploy, and so the pitchforks quickly come out. While that sucks for us sometimes, it's also a good sign, that our community is passionate about the game and wants to see it be the best it can be. Thank you for taking the time to write all of your ideas, we’re listening carefully to all of the suggestions.

If we could keep the discussion much simpler, without moral arguments and speculations about intentions, you’ll find we’re on the same page. We want to make the best game possible too.
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medal 5000
4 years 313 days ago
Thanks for the response...I did try to balance reflecting very real concerns with attempting to look at things from the other side of the fence, and sure, the most wild speculations grab the most attention (where would tabloid press be without that tendency?). I hope that the next time a major rollout is done more information is given out prior to it's introduction. 

As for myself, maybe they'll grow on me, but quick races are not really the sort of thing that I'm playing this game for (others will differ) and I can't see me using the feature often. I hope that, when all is finalised, this does not slow my pursuit of those 'big, bad level 20s'. 
Feedback is the lifeblood of beta testing and I gave mine and encouraged others to have their say, both here and in league chat. 
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medal 5145 CEO & CTO
4 years 313 days ago
I'd like to add one more thing - the sometimes slow response, especially to threads like this and at times like this, is also not a sign of our intentions or any desire to ignore them. We've been really swamped under just getting the apps stable after the last update.

Also, the stability issues weren't introduced by the updates themselves. The problems were caused by third-party library conflicts which didn't show up at all during testing, despite dozens of beta testers across an even greater number of devices testing the game. Once it went live, there turned out to be one or two types of device or language that hadn't been used in our beta testing program, which managed to let these conflicts slip through the net. We're already working to ensure that there can't be a repeat of that by adding more devices and languages to beta testing team. The whole team had a very long week (and weekend) just getting things back to normal again so that we could focus on the new features.

The update itself and QR have run pretty much like clockwork since we set them up. Sure, there are a few minor glitches to resolve, but the overall system worked well out of the box. We're quite happy with that for such a big shift in how people play.
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medal 5955 Moderator
4 years 313 days ago

Jack
This is actually quite simple when you boil it down to the fundamentals, minus all the speculation. Here's what I'm seeing: We don’t want QR to give out more level XP than we can earn in league races, and we want to do QR without running out of parts/engines. We can definitely make both of those things happen and actually, overall that was always our intention.

So, here’s what I propose:

  1. We implement a daily cap on level XP gains, so the amount of XP a player can gain in a day is fixed. We set the cap at the maximum amount you can gain from a league race. This way XP from leagues can be restored to what it was, and QR can’t give more XP than the most you can get from league racing.

  2. We restore driver healing for active teams that are not in leagues (this will keep server load reduced vs having it operational on all inactive teams)

  3. We are introducing daily rewards very soon, and this will issue free parts, engines and more for logins – this should also ease the concerns on whether you need to use parts etc. to do QR, especially as wear is greatly reduced in QR.

  4. Increase the number of parts given to a 2-car team so that they aren't thinly spread on parts.








Looks good to me.

You take player’s concerns into consideration and that’s all to your credit.
Thanks for your response to our groans.
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medal 5000
4 years 313 days ago
Sorry if I overreacted but it feels like if you don't kick off no one listens. If it can be played without affecting league games then I am happy to play. 
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medal 5000
4 years 313 days ago
Thank you for your response, Jack.
Jack
So, here’s what I propose:

  1. We implement a daily cap on level XP gains, so the amount of XP a player can gain in a day is fixed. We set the cap at the maximum amount you can gain from a league race. This way XP from leagues can be restored to what it was, and QR can’t give more XP than the most you can get from league racing.

  2. We restore driver healing for active teams that are not in leagues (this will keep server load reduced vs having it operational on all inactive teams)

  3. We are introducing daily rewards very soon, and this will issue free parts, engines and more for logins – this should also ease the concerns on whether you need to use parts etc. to do QR, especially as wear is greatly reduced in QR.

  4. Increase the number of parts given to a 2-car team so that they aren't thinly spread on parts.



Sounds good so far:


1. By reverting league XP to what it was while implementing a daily cap on level XP gains, players now have a choice of whether they'd like to gain XP by league races or QRs. I can see this be especially helpful not just for those who are not active in leagues, but also players whose leagues do not run all 7 days a week but they would still like to gain XP over their league off-days, and they can do so through QRs. The daily XP cap ensures that players who have the time and resources to farm plenty of QRs would not be able to gain too great of an advantage by doing so.

I just have two questions:
a) As we know, how much XP a manager earns in league races is dependent not only on their own level, but the level of the highest manager in their tier. A level 15 that races in a tier with a level 20 may gain 140XP, but if the level 15 is the highest level, I believe they would only gain the base 40XP, am I correct? I would like to know how that factors into the daily cap.

b) Another concern now would be balancing the health, parts, and engine wear costs by running QRs. The only idea I have at the top of my head so far is to have, assuming I didn't kek up my maths and English: Total health drain/parts wear/engine wear of #QRs required for player of level (X) to reach the same XP gains as they would in 1 league race = health drain/parts wear/engine wear of 1 league race. 

So for example: a level 17 manager would earn 100XP per league race if there is a level 20 in their tier. 5 QRs giving 20XP each would be the same as that level 17 manager's highest possible daily XP gains in a league race. 

Using this level 17 as an example, in this scenario, I propose that the total health drain, parts wear, and engine wear across those 5 QRs amount to more or less similar health drain, parts wear, and engine wear of one league race. We understand that things like wear are also dependent on the track and factors like push levels, though. Maybe if a level 17 QRs in Singapore the drain & wear could be adjusted to 1/5th that of a league Singapore GP, which would be vastly different to the drain & wear of the Italy GP, and so on.

Should there be concerns on health/parts/wear costs for managers who would like to do more than the #QRs required to reach the highest possible XP gains from one league race, perhaps you could decrease health/parts/wears cost even further for those extra QRs, or even eliminate wear entirely by that point. These are just what I have off the top of my head atm and there could be better suggestions, and this is all assuming the daily XP cap gets implemented.

2. I do believe restoring driver healing for active teams would work with this new gameplay model. As you suggested, there may be players who would prefer to gain XP through QRs, and others through leagues, so I am all for this new model of restoring driver healing for active teams. I'm just curious as to what are the criteria for a team to be considered "active". 

3. Daily rewards would indeed ease a lot of concerns when it comes to resource management. It also gives incentives for players to log in daily, which could especially help with getting more new players to stay in the game for longer, while rewarding the loyalty of existing players.

4. I especially like this. 1-car teams as they are now have advantages in terms of:
- lower salary costs due to having to run one less driver (some teams still have multiple drivers, but it's their choice)
- lower parts cost, only having to repair 1 car as opposed to 2
- lower engines costs. Yes, 1-car teams only get 10 engines per engine restock as opposed to a 2-car team's 20, but as it restocks every 20 leagues races, in those 20 races, not counting new season automatic engine & parts refits, 1-car teams could use a maximum of 20 engines, while 2-car teams could use 40.
- up to 4 managers in a 1-car league may be promoted/relegated per season, as opposed to a maximum of 2 for 2-car leagues. Maybe not a benefit for those fighting to escape relegation unless there's less than 32 teams. 

Once again I have to be curious on how those extra parts would be distributed to 2-car teams. Would perhaps the daily rewards for parts be multiplied for 2-car teams? Or would their manufacturing facility produce more parts? What if they aren't in any league at the moment?

Once again, thanks for the timely and thoughtful response, Jack and co., and do pardon me for my thick wall of comments, suggestions, and questions.
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medal 5145 CEO & CTO
4 years 312 days ago
Boomer
Thank you for your response, Jack.
1. By reverting league XP to what it was while implementing a daily cap on level XP gains, players now have a choice of whether they'd like to gain XP by league races or QRs.

I got thinking about this some more as I was implementing it today, and I can already hear the next lot of complaints.. some people will be able to gain XP on the "off-days" for leagues that don't race daily, by participating in QRs, resulting in those players gaining XP faster than the rivals in their league. For daily leagues this would be a non-issue.

I wondered if we should just disable gaining XP from QRs full-stop, if you are in a league? It sounds like the only way we're going to keep people happy... but is it just a vocal minority? I can count the complaints on one hand, and the number of people using QRs is a lot. How do we keep you all happy?

Boomer
Once again I have to be curious on how those extra parts would be distributed to 2-car teams. Would perhaps the daily rewards for parts be multiplied for 2-car teams? Or would their manufacturing facility produce more parts? What if they aren't in any league at the moment?

I've been working on the XP stuff today but it's a little too complex to roll out tonight, it needs another day of work. I managed to get the driver healing up as that was a simpler task.

This needs more thought too. I spoke to high level managers after my post and they claimed that they have no trouble meeting their parts requirements in 2-car teams. Is this mostly an issue for lower level managers? I was told we need to increase the parts consumed by 1-car teams, not increase the number of parts available to 2-car teams, when you factor in all the parts you can get from Ads, and soon Daily Rewards etc.

As you can see on nearly every topic I'm dealing with a whole lot of conflicting opinions.

Drew
Sorry if I overreacted but it feels like if you don't kick off no one listens. If it can be played without affecting league games then I am happy to play.

I realise a lot of games are like that, but we try to have eyes and ears on the ground at all times even if it isn't the developers directly. I have to give you respect for apologising anyway, this is why we have such a great community, because even after things get heated we can often cool down and see eye to eye.
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medal 5002
4 years 312 days ago
my HQ is 5 Star i am level 18 i lose around 20-30 parts a season, that can be covered my ads. since the ads are not a reliable source, for everyone, some managers will Not be able to quick race.
 when the ads are always working you are able to race about 10-12quick races a season in daily league.
5× ads a day times 17 days = 85 parts. so you have a surplus of 50-65 parts.
A one  car team should make a surplus of more than 100 parts without ads.
from my point i can say, i made 5 quick races, liked them but don't use them anymore, because of the the Parts cost.
I had the situation since i started, at the begit it happend for a reason, i preferred to build the performance HQs and relied on the ads. from level 16 i have the situation explained above.
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