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driver's level need to be capped? what if it wasn't? NEW IDEA

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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
Leslie
I think raising the cap is a very bad idea. James is correct. The game is just about tuned now. It would be a bad time to throw another tweak into the system that would skew the results of the spying/balancing system. One of the problems is that so many managers are using legacy drivers whose attributes are restricted by the game to match their level. That is totally fair. Many others have drivers that are rated above their level due to having not been in a team at the switch-over. They are in a position of exploiting the system. And they still want more.

With the balancing/spying system good drivers are one of the few ways to gain an advantage and the Academy drivers allow that advantage NOW because they are very fast for their training level. No one is using Academy drivers because no one has realized that a lower level Academy driver is faster than most legacy drivers when trained correctly.


Fighting JC Skyfire in the league i have this season, everything on the car side is balanced, but i can't even reach victory because his drivers are level 15, mine are just about to reach level 12, so JC has an advantage with those drivers i do not have and no matter what i try it is impossible to win races. i almost done so at monaco but my strategy didn't play out the way i was hoping, it was the only race where i managed to get a 2-4 for the first time and likely only time all season where i would have a chance.

i was so looking forward to the season i am currently in to fight on equal ground only i now realize that i am unable to reach for it because the drivers are what is skewing any potential balance at this point.

i would like the cap brought down on drivers as well so everyone can have a chance, not just those with better drivers exploiting the system as you put it.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
Kevin, I have always thought that there should be a Super division above Elite that has no relegation. And that the rules for that Super division should differ from the regular tier rules allowing even competition. I think the Super division should begin at level 15.
I think Jack is resistant to that idea because he has never offered a comment or rebuttal.
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medal 5090 CEO & CTO
7 years 332 days ago (edited 7 years 332 days ago)
I've wanted to read through this thread for several days but it was always going to be a big commitment, finally got there now. It's very difficult to handle balancing challenges like this while at the same time keeping everyone happy.

In the short-term I can easily implement changes like at 1 level above the manager progress is 3% per session, then 2% when 2 levels above, and 1% beyond that. Perhaps this would go some way to levelling the playing field, a bit like when I raised the driver/staff level cap by a whole digit. Maybe this will give us some more time to hammer out ideas and discuss things.

The obvious looming question over all of this is should drivers be level-capped at all? But then you get an inconsistency in the game, where some things are level-capped and others aren't. We want things to remain consistent.

There is another way, going completely outside of the box of where everyone is thinking currently. It would keep things consistent and work in a similar way to staff, where their relative rating matters more than their absolute rating. What if the drivers star rating and level relative to the manager became the most important factor in the simulation of their driving ability, as opposed to the numbers themselves. Taking Dan's example, if you were a level 12 manager in Elite but had 5-star drivers and they have 12 on all their attributes, they effectively perform the same as a level 20 manager hiring a level 20 driver. My only concern about this concept is how abstract and confusing it might be if we keep using absolute level numbers.

So, there is something (an idea I've also seen in another game) that might tie this all together. What if instead of absolute levels, all levels in the game were relative percentages? Every attribute on the driver would become a %, relative to the manager's level, as opposed to a rigid number. So, if you are level 12 and hire a 12 talent driver, that would read as 100% talent in the GUI, and if you hire a level 6 talent driver, that's a 50% talent driver, and so on.

As has been pointed out already, higher level managers would still maintain other perks and advantages, such as getting more design points every race, and higher level Boost / DRS. These advantages could remain, to avoid handicapping the higher level managers who have frankly earned some perks due to their commitment to iGP. There definitely needs to be an advantage to being higher level, just not an insurmountable one, skill should always be a factor.
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medal 5090 CEO & CTO
7 years 332 days ago
Also, another reason I like that idea is that it would address another matter which I wasn't looking forward to handling - promotion and relegation balancing. Under the current system a level 20 driver could be taken to Pro by a relegating Elite manager, which is obviously unfair. Under a relative rating system, that driver would only be as powerful as the ones the Pro managers could hire as well, keeping things fair.

Without such a system, it might be necessary for drivers to leave a team during relegation to keep the game balanced. While that might be more realistic (Hamilton won't move back to GP2, for example) it separates managers and their drivers. We all know how attached we become to our drivers!

Staff ratings would also be updated to use a relative rather than absolute rating system, keeping everything consistent across the board.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It might even make more sense for me to create a new thread on it.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago (edited 7 years 332 days ago)
Well Jack, i like the idea of % but, maybe is too much at the moment.

Let's see, maybe this one is too much too :P
I understand the cap in facilities, the cap in transfers (not being able to get staff beyond your manager). But we have feelings for our drivers LOL so, i don't like the cap when training.

How about this?:
The training should be uncapped (here, the manager's level have nothing to do).
The training should be restricted by the driver's level. I mean, no matter what level you are as a manager, your driver level 15 will get 12% progress per training, when the driver is level 16, will get 10%, driver level 17 gets 8%, and so on... (you have to help me with the numbers, i'm just giving an example)
maybe the steps are level by level or by two levels, i don't know, but higher level, less progress.

(the consistency is here)
And, the simulator will give you that progress, if you have it at the max you are able to. manager level 16 with simulator level 16. manager level 19 with simulator level 19.

(i know this is too much but, now we are here so i'll continue dreaming hahahaha sorry :P)
if you have your simulator 1 level bellow your manager level. then your driver progress per train, will be the progress for a driver 1 level higher.
Example: manager level 16, simulator level 14 (2 levels lower) driver level 10. The progress per training will be the one for a driver level 12 (+2).

well, i'm thinking over my keyboard but, i like this idea.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
About relegation:
i'll try to be consisten with the idea i wrote in the previous post:
Managers in pro, will be able to have good drivers too, because they won't be capped.
to mix the things a little bit more, let's say you can keep your driver when you are relegated, and your staff, but all of them will suffer a lot in Morale. Maybe taking in to 1 for everyone. (i don't know how much) you can keep Hamilton if you are attached to him, but he will cry a lot)
in the same way, when being promoted, Morale should be increased for everyone in the team.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
@Dan : I agree, the % idea is too much and would be confusing for everyone, what works great for staff won't work great for drivers especially as they have so many attributes. I also pointed drivers are now less important but some attributres are very important like stamina and maybe weight as well, the real issue is coming for the inability to train physical stats when we reach the cap.

Just a personal example : After the stat reduction I had a driver with all stats at 15 (except composure & knowledge), I hired a new driver with stats at 19 and the first had difficulties in race finishing a couple of positions behind him, but as soon as I maxed his stamina he was able to follow him and he even won driver champ. Someone proposed to lose weight (-0.2 kg) after each training sesion, maybe it can be possible to gain some stamina as well or something like that.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago (edited 7 years 332 days ago)
Joey
@Dan : I agree, the % idea is too much and would be confusing for everyone, what works great for staff won't work great for drivers especially as they have so many attributes. I also pointed drivers are now less important but some attributres are very important like stamina and maybe weight as well, the real issue is coming for the inability to train physical stats when we reach the cap.

Just a personal example : After the stat reduction I had a driver with all stats at 15 (except composure & knowledge), I hired a new driver with stats at 19 and the first had difficulties in race finishing a couple of positions behind him, but as soon as I maxed his stamina he was able to follow him and he even won driver champ. Someone proposed to lose weight (-0.2 kg) after each training sesion, maybe it can be possible to gain some stamina as well or something like that.


Yes, there are many possibilities but i keep thinking in reducing the gap with drivers from high level managers.

Maybe it's boring if all drivers reach 20 on every attribute, that has to be difficult. and where is the diff between drivers when all is maxed?I remember in the old igp, after reaching 20 in something (slow corners for example), next race you lose a little bit of it 19 (19.9). then you had to train again.
but there are many solutions, drivers could have strength and weakness, favorite tracks, home tracks, etc... so i'm not afraid to say it's better if we all are able to keep training drivers, progressing according to the driver level. this way we are closing the gaps all the time, little by little.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
On another post we were saying about Driver personality so in my opinion percentage and star rating for drivers also will make things more Flat. As for the training part 3% 2% etc look ok for now;)
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medal 5090 CEO & CTO
7 years 332 days ago
Jack
In the short-term I can easily implement changes like at 1 level above the manager progress is 3% per session, then 2% when 2 levels above, and 1% beyond that.

I've just implemented this.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
well, i would have another idea to create some variance:

what if the drivers would have some favorite tracks and tracks he doesnt like.

for example if he likes the spain gp, The simulation should calculate the speed of the driver with every attribute +1 for this certain race and if he doesnt like monaco then every attribute should be calculated with a -1 (except stamina and weight)
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medal 6571
7 years 332 days ago
Jack
Jack
In the short-term I can easily implement changes like at 1 level above the manager progress is 3% per session, then 2% when 2 levels above, and 1% beyond that.

I've just implemented this.


I recommend everybody do a CTRL+F5 or CTRL+R refresh so they can feel the effects without accidentally getting a few training sessions at 1%.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago (edited 7 years 332 days ago)
I guess we are playing a different version of igp to others cause I don't see how drivers training needs changed lol


Only thing we need is to be able to train individual attributes of drivers so we can train drivers in areas we want and not train some at all
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago (edited 7 years 332 days ago)
@Jack: Thanks! that will help.

@James: I think you are playing Candy Crush! LOL
don't worry, Marcel and Jason are fast, even in a tricycle
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
M
well, i would have another idea to create some variance:

what if the drivers would have some favorite tracks and tracks he doesnt like.

for example if he likes the spain gp, The simulation should calculate the speed of the driver with every attribute +1 for this certain race and if he doesnt like monaco then every attribute should be calculated with a -1 (except stamina and weight)


I like that!
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
I playing but I'm also testing out this and that to workout what does what.
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medal 5000
7 years 332 days ago
James
I playing but I'm also testing out this and that to workout what does what.


I know James, i saw every detailed post you wrote ;)
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medal 5090 CEO & CTO
7 years 331 days ago
Interesting feedback. I thought I'd throw the levels as a relative percentage idea out there since I'd seen it done in another game to handle the same scenario.

There still doesn't seem to be a strong consensus on what the best idea is, though. As it stands I'm just going to leave it at the training change and give that a few weeks to see if more issues crop up.

I am still concerned about relegation bringing overpowered teams down to lower tiers, though. That is something which might push this to be addressed sooner rather than later. My original solution for this was to simply have them leave the team and complain that they didn't want to race in Pro for example, if they relegated from Elite, and were well above the Pro level cap. But my hesitation about implementing such a feature is that it would separate managers from drivers who maybe they have invested a lot in, which is never nice.
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medal 5000
7 years 331 days ago
It's ok, let's see how this works. Cool. I think it's another good step.
(Jack: i think there is no rush at the moment, the game is really playable, and enjoyable at the moment. i believe the big issues about power are in the past, now we are talking about fine tunning ;))

About relegation, as i said, i prefer my driver to be damaged in Morale (crying for being relegated), in Stamina and Weight (stayed all winter in bed watching tv and eating fast food) than be separated. It could be a huge damage (maybe as more experienced, more damage). So there are some variations. Some managers will decide to change them anyway, but let's managers decide what to do (you just slap them with some damage for being relegated lol).



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medal 5000
7 years 331 days ago (edited 7 years 331 days ago)
Just damage relegated teams by dropping everything back down to 12 like it was done at the start Drivers & Staff what about Headquarters, anything below 12 can still worked on but the rest are locked and their outputs are 12?

Wee mail due to relegation we have be forced to downsize facilities to level 12 and pay off some employees, gaining promotion we will be able to unlock our true potential and re-hire some employees.
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