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Proposal: Remove relegation to achieve balance

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Alex perkins
7 years 312 days ago

MY team was relegated from elite 2 seasons ago and i allready had everything at level 13 so for the last 2 seasons i have been unable to upgrade a single thing (am ust hording tokens i cant spend) meanwhile the teams in elite have been able to upgrade every race for the past 2 seasons so when i do eventually get promotion i will go straight back down again as with the level caps i'm simply falling further and further behind with no chance of ever catching up ..... I understand the whole level cap thing is aimed at keeping new players but it is killing the competiveness of the leagues (it has made pro more exciting but made elite a case of the same old winners race after race)

Nathan Isom
7 years 312 days ago

Thats interesting Alex as we tended to find in our Elite league that there was at least 1 team per season who 'gave up' and therefore got relegated eventually rather than a team getting relegated.

That said, if you are at the maximum you can be in Pro, you really ought to have a fairly good chance of being promoted again as your already as good as it can possibly be in that league against teams who are still developing. So whilst i agree its a pain that you cant develop further, you probably should be able to get promoted straight away and then use all those extra tokens you have to mass increase your HQ to your (hopefully) higher manager level before the end of the season following promotion.

It could be a bit yo-yo initially, but that's always the case with somebody, somewhere, in some league, at some point.

Alex perkins
7 years 312 days ago

No the league im in the MJL is a very tough league so in pro we have alot of former elite teams which has made every division a tough one rather than the same old teams going up and down like in some other leagues

Alex perkins
7 years 312 days ago

and no even with a stash of tokens i wont be able to cath up the fact when i was level 13 the same as many others they now level 16/17 and they been able to train thier drivers higher and have not not been able to train my drivers at all because of the level cap plus my 20 talent drivers became 12 talent drivers when got relegated (if i do go up and my drivers dont go back to 20 talent am gunna be pissed)

Ricky Swan
7 years 312 days ago

Yeah i'm also in the mjl and i can tell you there's many level 13 plus teams in pro as i went down to that division last season however went straight back up as was slightly higher than the other teams therefore they simply had no way of catching up due to the fact they cant reach the same level as are capped so cant get higher than 13 so if a 14 team come down (and every team higher than that in elite almost) then the higher team simply walk the division e.g. look at the season follow me on twitter won pro in mjl with level 17 everything against a bunch of guys who cant get higher than they allready are,follow me on twiter won every race by over a minute from them to everyone else at almost every race (it was down to 30 seconds in last few races) and because of that it saw a good few teams go sod this and leave for a league that was easier.

It appers to me that all this has come about with the addition of the level cap as old game had no level cap it never had this problem, yes it can be hard if your against a team that is a much higher level than you but its alot harder if they higher than you and there's no chance at all of ever being able to do a damn thing to catch them.

dan ruglio
7 years 312 days ago

Jack, i understand the idea helps a lot in some aspects but it won't be popular at all.

- After being in the same league for many seasons, you made friends, you know the managers you are battling, who is better, who has good drivers, it's like your home. Nobody wants to be moved.

- I don't think this will do any good to Pro tiers, always low on managers and many times with promotion closed because under 8 managers. Why? Because 2 will still be coming from rookie but 2 wont be coming from elite. so... if this tier already had problems, this won't be good.

I prefer to be punished because of a relegation but, stay in the same league at the same hour and work hard to get the promotion again next season.

How punished?
I don't think we have to lose our drivers but:
- All staff and drivers morale goes to 1, drivers weight goes to 81kg because they are sad and they just want to eat, stamina goes down a little) Maybe that's enough to give others a chance to battle that strong team on a bad moment but, managers coming from lower tiers, should accept a manager coming from the upper tiers (relegated) are strong. A manager will be ready to get the promotion when he is able to finish on front of those strong teams.

CEO & CTO
7 years 312 days ago

Дмитрий

everything in the game is bought for money. I developed gradually, and someone just started playing, all bought and wins almost every race.

Sorry, but you must be mistaken. If someone just started playing as you describe, then they are capped to level 3, and they can only buy items up to their level. I can see that you are level 9, so it is not possible for a new player to unlock the same levels as you, they would need to race for weeks to reach level 9 as everyone does. That's the way we designed the game to ensure the best players are there because they are dedicated. Even if Roman Abramovich brought all his billions to an iGP account he couldn't buy past level 3. Like everyone else, he would have to patiently level up before he could get level 4, then 5 and so on. Sure, it can accelerate the process and make it more convenient, but it can't unlock levels you haven't earned through dedication.

Ian Rundle
7 years 312 days ago

The level Cap is like telling the top premiership teams they can't play the best players as is unfair to teams like burnley etc lol

Kevin Taylor
7 years 312 days ago

So, why not remove the level cap for all players but introduce a cap on the number of tokens that can be spent in a season as suggested earlier?
This has the benefit of people being able to achieve maximum development no matter what tier they are in but prevents people from purchasing and using hundreds of tokens which would demoralise those players that want a steady progression through the game.
League hopping can be made to be unattractive by appropriate penalties and just like old iGP, as you level up and gain more experience you will naturally progress up to Elite where you will remain providing you are shrewd with your recruitment, develop your cars in the right areas and employ strategies that work well with the circuit and prevailing weather conditions.
What are the drawbacks to this approach?

CEO & CTO
7 years 312 days ago (edited 7 years 312 days ago)

Alex

MY team was relegated from elite 2 seasons ago and i allready had everything at level 13 so for the last 2 seasons i have been unable to upgrade a single thing

It's precisely this kind of situation (among others) that I'm looking to address. The soft level cap that has emerged for serious consideration in this thread would resolve your situation. You would be able to upgrade past level 13 while in Pro, but the performance would be as if you were level 12 as long as you were in Pro. E.g. a level 17 Manager in Rookie would perform as if they were a level 8 manager (since level 8 is the Rookie level cap), and as if they were level 12 in Pro (since the cap in pro is 12), but as if they were level 17 in Elite, where the cap is 20.

Another alternative I put forward a few weeks ago was a "relative level system". I wonder if I had opened it to the whole community as I did with this idea if there would have been more support for it.

The idea of a relative level system would work like so:
All levels are relative to the manager level, rather than the league or opponents. So if you are level 10 and you have a level 5 driver that's shown as 50%, if you have a level 8 driver that's 80% and so on. The performance of all teams would be based on this value rather than their absolute levels, meaning managers of any level could compete with each other (great for leagues and casual races alike). In order to be competitive, all anyone needs to do is have the items in their team at their current level. This is actually the system used in the current most popular manager game on mobiles and tablets.

Hannu Vallin
7 years 312 days ago

In my opinion the soft level cap is by far the best way to address these problems.

CEO & CTO
7 years 312 days ago

Hannu

In my opinion the soft level cap is by far the best way to address these problems.

Of the currently available ideas, I think so too, but the next question is how to communicate it clearly in the GUI? In that respect I think it could be a little unclear and difficult to explain to people "You're level 17, but you're actually level 12 until you get to Elite...". I'd like to hear some suggestions on what people feel would be a nice clear way to understand this wherever there is a display of levels etc. So far, the thread has been great at generating ideas, so I might as well ask before I start drawing up anything myself. :)

Henry Boyer
7 years 312 days ago

Kevin

So, why not remove the level cap for all players but introduce a cap on the number of tokens that can be spent in a season as suggested earlier?
This has the benefit of people being able to achieve maximum development no matter what tier they are in but prevents people from purchasing and using hundreds of tokens which would demoralise those players that want a steady progression through the game.
League hopping can be made to be unattractive by appropriate penalties and just like old iGP, as you level up and gain more experience you will naturally progress up to Elite where you will remain providing you are shrewd with your recruitment, develop your cars in the right areas and employ strategies that work well with the circuit and prevailing weather conditions.
What are the drawbacks to this approach?

this is by far the best solution

James Greer
7 years 312 days ago (edited 7 years 312 days ago)

Jack

M

So my suggestion: Remove the hard level cap and replace it with a soft level cap. By soft level cap i mean, that the attributes of your building/staff stay the same, but should be calculated with the level cap. So for example, if a level20 manager will get demoted to Pro. His headquarter and staff, will already be level 20. But they would react like a level12 building/driver. So the Design facility should have a level 20 (12). The number in bracket would be the level cap of the league. So this Design facility would produce 12 Design Points in Pro, and after he got promoted back to elite, it will again produce 20 design points.

At the moment, I quite like this idea. Then we could still "uncap" levels within leagues as I was proposing and people could get their levels slightly above the cap before promotion, still achieving the "smooth transition" I was referring to in the OP. It would also resolve the relegation situation.

To put it simply, if a level 20 manager is in Rookie, he's only going to have the performance of a level 8 manager. If the level 20 manager was in Pro, he could only achieve the performance of a level 12 manager (these are the current level cap numbers). But once he promotes to Elite, his full 20 levels of performance are available.

My reservation about the idea is that it will probably require a lot of warnings and information in the GUI to show you that you are only getting 8 levels of performance in Rookie and 12 in Pro, using this scenario. Again, I think this will be slightly more confusing to people than the proposed system, but it is simple enough that I don't think it's overwhelming like some other ideas. I could also see people complaining that it is unrealistic, though. It seems every solution will have its drawbacks and compromises, so it's a case of which compromises we're willing to accept as a community to reach a solution.

This is what we are used to and the way the older version of iGP was.
Drivers and staff remained in the team, training effects were limited because of lower tier. (but it wasn't :P)
Low level managers could hire high level staff and drivers and train Drivers up to the highest level.

So we are going back to this?

Headquarters can be leveled up to you level regardless of tier, only the outputs of the headquarters get limited to the tiers cap.
Managers level 8+ can buy and train drivers up to the highest level.

Sam Leo
7 years 312 days ago

The information can be given as they do now
"your current level cap is 14."
at pro : "your current level cap is 14. your current performance level cap is 12"

CEO & CTO
7 years 312 days ago

The thread seems to have more or less run its course. No groundbreaking ideas are coming up, and the soft level cap does seem to be the most popular idea, so it's the most likely way we'll go forward with a revised proposal at some point.

For the one or two posts proposing harder limits on tokens, the situations being addressed by this thread don't center around that, and the level system already restricts token spending heavily. As I said, a billionaire can't get any more levels than a guy who is playing for free on weekends. I'm happy with that balance, as are most people. And as with most free games, a percentage of the players basically subsidise the service for everyone. Taking that away would take away the sustainability of the service itself, really making it a non-starter. But the situation being discussed also isn't that people are getting levels too quickly, it's about people who've earned high levels getting relegated and being above the level of the opposition.

James

So we are going back to this? Headquarters can be leveled up to you level regardless of tier, only the outputs of the headquarters get limited to the tiers cap.

Well, the output of the HQ and the level of the drivers would need to be capped with the soft cap. It can't just be one or the other. I could make some kind of "capped" symbol that gets shown throughout the game with a tooltip explaining what it represents when the levels are being restricted. But the training screens, HQ etc. would all allow you to upgrade beyond whatever the cap is, meaning someone could upgrade to level 20 in Rookie if they wanted, they just wouldn't get additional performance beyond level 8 until they promote to Pro or Elite, then all those extra levels they had earned while in Rookie would come in to effect.

James Greer
7 years 312 days ago

Jack

James

So we are going back to this? Headquarters can be leveled up to you level regardless of tier, only the outputs of the headquarters get limited to the tiers cap.

Well, the output of the HQ and the level of the drivers would need to be capped with the soft cap. It can't just be one or the other. I could make some kind of "capped" symbol that gets shown throughout the game with a tooltip explaining what it represents when the levels are being restricted. But the training screens, HQ etc. would all allow you to upgrade beyond whatever the cap is, meaning someone could upgrade to level 20 in Rookie if they wanted, they just wouldn't get additional performance beyond level 8 until they promote to Pro or Elite, then all those extra levels they had earned while in Rookie would come in to effect.

Why cant you just limit HQ and allow lower level manager to hire higher level staff, if they can afford the wages let them. I'm level 19 and I cant afford to hire good drivers their wages are scary high, you either have top quality background staff or drivers sponsors income don't allow for both lol

Martin Hauck
7 years 312 days ago

Well,

just to clearify:

im already for this hard level cap implemented by expierence. So a new player has actual play the game, to get better HQ/driver/staff, etc. This things shouldn't be touched at all.

Just the soft level cap, should get active, if your level by expierence goes further as the soft level cap per tier (12 for pro, 8 for rookie). So you should be able to build your HQ up to your hard level cap, but the actual advantage of your buildings should be capped to 12 (maybe just the design and technology building) (this with your manufacturing is another thing to discuss).

i would agree, that you should be able to upgrade the building further to the hard level cap by your expierence. So you can be competive, if you get promoted to a better tier.

for drivers: their attributes should be simulated with the factor Limited of Tier/level of manager. (it would be for a lvl 15 player in pro: 12/15) So if this level 15 manager has a level 14.0 driver, it would act like a level 11.2 drivers. But the stars should already be calculated from the real level. So a level 15 manager really always wants to get a driver as close to his manager level as possible. But this would also mean, that the simulator facility should not been affected by the soft level cap at all, as the training is already balance by the hard level cap only.

For staff there wouldn't be affected by level cap at all, as their strengt depends from the star rating, and this directly depends just at the hard level cap. This would also mean, that the staff center shouldnt be affected at the soft level cap.

Martin Hauck
7 years 312 days ago

Oh, for displaying the level cap:

You should replace the line above your Headquarter
"Your current level cap: 12"

with

"your current level cap by manager level 12"
"your current level cap by tier: 20"

and the tooltip should explain this thing.

dan ruglio
7 years 312 days ago

Jack

Well, the output of the HQ and the level of the drivers would need to be capped with the soft cap. It can't just be one or the other. I could make some kind of "capped" symbol that gets shown throughout the game with a tooltip explaining what it represents when the levels are being restricted. But the training screens, HQ etc. would all allow you to upgrade beyond whatever the cap is, meaning someone could upgrade to level 20 in Rookie if they wanted, they just wouldn't get additional performance beyond level 8 until they promote to Pro or Elite, then all those extra levels they had earned while in Rookie would come in to effect.

I like that, yes.

"Capped by tier"

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