Suggested

Reducing the effect of fuel

Hello developers,

I've been thinking about a couple of ways to bring in "counter-strategy"ing to some extent to the game; which I would explain as performing your next move(s) according to what your competitors are doing.

(I put the main suggestion in bold text if you do not want to go through a bit of the thinking process and observations)

What I noticed when I'm playing, is that you can almost never change your strategy after a race start in the current state of things. You have to go to the end of your fuel tank on them, otherwise it's going to be an "extra" pitstop which will just add 16-22 seconds to your race. Right now, to change your strategy, that new strategy has to be much quicker to actually regain that lost time (Like switching to inters when rain starts.) Which means you can almost never do it. (*)

Another reason is the number of viable strategies. In my opinion the latest tyre change worked really well on this part, so I have to give credit to you people, thank you for that. What I have got to say here is that it's almost never viable to go on a 2 stop, before all this I would blame it on the tyres, but now that their effect is reduced, I think fuel could be adjusted too.

To do a 2 stopper, you are supposed to pick the harder compounds and put high fuel loads in, usually above 50L, and I think pretty much anyone who's got some experience with the game knows the cars become trucks with such amounts of fuel. 

I will suggest a decrease in the amount a lap of fuel affects your laptimes. 

So you could do a 2 stop with the amount of time you lose from the tyres, rather than the fuel. High fuel load + slower tyres are the compromises of a 2 stop, yes, but without adjustments it seems impossible to try except on a track or two.

Thanks for reading, and I'd be happy to help with the idea if it gets approved or anything.

Using hards and lots of fuel is like driving a hgv

I agree, the famous undercut commonly used in motorsport is not possible with this game. 
To stop some laps before to fit new tyres and fuel is slower than keeping old tires with low fuel.

Beeb saying it for ages, fuel needs to be scaled in weight like tyres have been, 25% races can 1 stop, that shouldent be easy except on some.tracks, 100% have to 3/4 stop at least, we need some.happy.medium where, usually limited by tyre wear, people will do either 1/2/3 stops, or 2/3/4 stops or 3/4/5 stops, depending on the track (for example, Monaco is normally a 1 stop race, even when refuelling existed, in Igp its a 4/5/6 stop race.. The game doesn't even account for more than 4 stops, yet its faster at Monaco to do 5ish stops.. A key sign that weight of fuel in 100% races needs a reduction, or the penalty for fuel weight at least is reduced, perhap allow carring 70l instead of only 50 without massive penalty, and 35 instead of 25 being where fuel weight gets "light", then scale it for shorter distances.

What? No!

An ounce is an ounce, pound is a pound and a kg is a kg.
IF there is any 'scaling' or disadvantage due to fuel at all it should be (amount of fuel in liters) x 0.75kg. (Or something close to this number)
Meaning every single liter of fuel gives u the same amount of accumulating disadvantage.
Regardless the length of the race.
Fuel doesnt suddenly weigh less if u drive a shorter distance.

Before freaking out, make sure you know what someone is saying.


I never said SCALE the weight of the fuel based off how much you have.

I said SCALE the weight based off the distance of the RACE.

ie.. 

Step 1:- find out which race distance has the best "fuel weight" to "laps" ratio.
Step 2:- balance all distances to match this ratio.
Step 3:- Tweak the weight to find the best weight for the fuel to make MORE strategies competitive.. perhaps also alter the effect of too much fuel (which IS scaled already) as a higher limit before a car is "heavy" and so slows down massivly, would allow people to more effectivly do longer stints.

This is basically the same process as was made for Tyres (i would guess), i am just saying this should be applied to fuel too.

Also, igp can make fuel whatever weight they want from my POV, i just want the game to be more fun, have more strategy options.

I would love to run a 1 or 2 stop race vs people doing 3 stops, but its way slower than both for all races in 100%, and likewise, a 4/5 stop race is not fast enough either, its always 3 stop 3 stop 3 stop, rarely you might see a 2 stop winner, or a 4 stop winner (excluding wet races).

Bro, i understood exactly what u said.
Hence i said NO!
U can make it sound different with add on post saying the same stuff in different ways...

On your 'freaking out' comment ima just call ad hominem.

Hey, just wanted to join into this.

My original idea was not to scale down anything depending on the length races, and i think what we have as a kind of 'limit' at 50 litres is too low to try to do a strategy with less stops, harder tyres and of course more fuel. I wanted to have a change to how much pace you lose by the amount of fuel you have in your car, right now a hard set can be faster than fresh softs if the softs are around 45 litres and the hards less than 10, they should of course be close; but i think it would be better to reduce both the time you lose at the end of a stint with the pace you gain at the end of it, the difference is too high in my oinion.

That was a lot of commas but hope I could get myself understood :)

This is clear Ege and I have the same opinion than you. The fuel effect on lap times is exaggerated and doesn't allow any undercut (stopping before to fit new tyres and try to overtake the one in front when they will stop later)

IMO the undercut doesn't work in iGP because we still allow re-fuelling during a pit stop. A car attempting the undercut will come out of the pits with a heavy fuel load, the car staying out will have worn tyres but the low fuel will be more than enough to offset the degraded tyres. Clearly you already understand and agree with this because the title of this thread is "Reducing the effect of fuel"

There is another way to mix up the racing and make for alternative strategies... ban refuelling altogether. Cars would have to begin the race with enough fuel to take them all the way to the finish line which would place more emphasis on tyre strategy. The undercut would become a reality and developing both the fuel and tyre attributes would have more importance.

Fuel: By developing this attribute you may be able to run with two or three litres less fuel than a competitor which at the beginning of the race would be a significant advantage. As the race progresses the difference in fuel load reduces and the effect of better fuel economy also reduces. 

Tyres: By developing this attribute your tyres will remain fresher so your car will get progressively better as the stint goes on than a competitor whose tyres are wearing faster. You might also be able to go another lap or two without them falling off the cliff in terms of performance which could make the difference during the last few laps of the race.

Finally, no refuelling would mean running out of fuel would end the race for managers who got their calculation wrong. You either take a conservative approach and run with a heavier car or an aggressive approach and risk running out of fuel. The aggressive approach would also bring PL management more into play, if you're marginal on fuel you could maybe scrape over the line by reducing to PL1 for the final part of the race but this would be at the detriment of tyre temperature.

So IMO banning refuelling brings a lot more strategy into the game. Is it going to happen? Unlikely, but I thought I'd put it out there so you can all shoot me LOL.

I agree with this. This would make the game a lot better imo. Perhaps this could be included as an option for the League Host as to whether or not they ban refueling.

Hi Kevin. Agree with you for most of the things but I'm still convinced that new super soft with 10 laps of fuel should be faster than low fuel and 20ish % of tyre. 

I agree, but can i still shoot u?

@Bo ???

●●●
I couldnt find the character u used on my tablet, so i went with the 1 they use in langlaufing/skiing

While I agree that it would be faster, I think it would not be enough to gain the 18-20 seconds you lost in the pits. I think switching early to the SS tyres would be for something like blocking/neutralizing a strategy someone 20 seconds behind you is trying to do. Rare occasions, so not much for us to do on that part.

Re- your whole issue with me, grow up and be constructive, explain why it will be such a bad change as you think it is so.


Re:- your reply.. re-read what i said.

Currently in IGP, when you reach certain levels of fuel, the weight it is, seems to amplify by a lot, based on how higher you go.

lets say 1L = 0.75kg

24L = 18kg = feels like 18kg
26L = 19.5kg = feels like 22kg 

if we go up the fuel loads.. there is a similar increase in slowness at 35L+
if we go even further up the fuel loads.. there is an even higher speed loss at 50L+

I am saying this INCREASE is causing strategies to be limited... this increase is a SCALING.. the thing you are opposed to.

I am saying that this SCALING should be reduced, so that at all racing distances, the effect of fuel is the same.

at 25% distance, everyone 1 stops.
at 50% distance, id assume 1/2/3 stop are possible, but most people 2 stop (someone please correct me if im wrong)
at 75% distance, id assume 2/3 stops are both good strategies for most races.
at 100% distance you generally have 1 option.. 3 stopping.

I am saying that i want to make it so that at all distances.. 1/2/3/4 stops, are all "good strategies".. not all on the same track, but, one track might be better for 1/2 stop, another for 3/4, another for 2/3, etc... rather than the boring dire "3 stop every race".

in order to achieve this, i am suggesting the weight scaling is removed/reduced 

IE...

lets say 1L = 0.75kg

24L = 18kg = feels like 18kg
26L = 19.5kg = feels like 20k
35L = 26.25kg = feels like 27kg
50L = 37.5kg = feels like 39.5kg

and if that is not possible because of game design, then really fuel needs to be changed in some way, either reduced amount per lap for longer races, or something in order to make more strategies plausible per race.

When you next reply bo.. reply to the below..

Your saying you WANT to keep fuel scaling to make there be less strategy options (ie, the amplified weight).. and you DONT WANT fuel to be scaled to make more strategy options. (ie, more weight for shorter distance races vs longer distance races, like tires have been scaled)?


also.. what is said below, from my pov is correct.. personally i feel, any option to make fuel weight fair (either, no pitting for fuel, or balancing the fuel so it is fair at all weights on all distances) will make the racing better.

Why can i not reply to all the bs and lies (or misinterpretations) up put above?
I said "if any scaling then.... amount of fuel x weight of fuel"
Scaling it to distance is more bs.

But ok.. i will only respond to your lies in the darker part.
I cant remember (or simply scroll up and read) me saying (writing) anything about limiting or expanding strategies due to fuel.
Please stop putting words in my keyboard that are not mine, but simply here to discredited what i say and strengthen your own argument.
It is plain lying.
And i think thats my problem with u.. and anyone for that matter. FALSE INFORMATION!



There is a perfect strategy for every track. If u change the weight of fuel u do not expand the number of possible strategies.
U simply change the perfect strategy for that track from .. stops, to a different perfect strategy with .. stops.
The problem here is we all know the perfect strategy for the track we are on.
It may seem like more different strategies to u because we'd all have to experiment again to find the perfect strategy for a coupe of races,
but thats just deluding yourself.
It is simple math.
In 2 to 4 seasons we will al be back on the new perfect strategy. 
The only way to really change this is kevin's idea to change it to no-refuelling. That way tyre durability will govern the strategies.
After which u may open a topic to "change the way tyredurability is scaled"

Simple math dude. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only thing that needs to be 'Scaled' down is the arguing between you both. Anyway, back to eating my popcorn...

I agree