First off, I'd like to apologize for my false accusations towards Peter and other managers I've wrongfully called out regarding account alt-ing. I stand by my point that Peter has at least alt-ed in the past, which I'll expand on further below though only briefly as I don't want to push any more accusations, especially potentially false ones, too far, and once again if I'm mistaken with those accusations I'll apologize. I also apologize for my aggressive and condescending tone in those forum posts that Peter has taken the time to outline, which can be interpreted as me trying to provoke a response, or in other words, me trolling. Regardless of the points I was making and intentions behind my sometimes condescending, sometimes sarcastic and jocular, sometimes furious tone, I agree I didn't come across as particularly tolerant, forgiving, or nice so all I can say to that unflattering display is sorry (some of the banter and jokes seemed funny at the time, but at the expense of Peter, so my apologies). This will be a rather long post, but I'd appreciate if you could bear with me.
I believe I've made most if not all my points regarding the whole lap records debacle clear enough. To summarize, I maintain that regardless of whether Peter did it as a joke, it's still a form of masquerade and I don't imagine most managers would be pleased to have other people claim their records as theirs, especially if Peter intends to keep those driver names. I also maintain that Peter didn't respond appropriately to Jason's grievances, especially with how he tried to put the fault on Jason, though I understand Peter could have reflected on his actions since then and come to a different understanding of the situation.
I think the rest of Peter's post is in response to my hard, furious assaults, of which I concede a good part of my remarks were uncalled for. I can easily say I made the more ridiculing comments in jest but I won't bore you all with such a cop-out defense (I honestly believe that Peter is one of the better managers out there. At the moment not as dominant as those I'd consider great but still a distinguished manager in the iGP community and with great potential nonetheless, so all the banter like how he's not as good as Joey's pinkie shouldn't be taken too seriously, and if Peter can find that funny too then I'm sure he's not gravely affected by that one). I apologize if my ridiculing comments were offensive, and I won't hesitate to admit that part of the reason for the ridiculing tone is to get back at Peter, on which once again I'll expand on further below, not to justify my tone but to give some background as to why my attitude towards Peter is as so.
The main reason for the tone I've taken towards Peter is my perception of Peter's attitude and behavior, not just in the lap records debacle but also influenced by a little incident we've had in the past that, while inconsequential to the present day looking back at it, left me disgusted with Peter back then, who I otherwise thought (and still think to some degree) is a decent bloke. I'll talk more about the little incident in a bit. I won't deny that it should be left in the past, and I've done my best to keep it in the past until recently, but seeing Peter not only pull his latest stunt, but also attempt to fault Jason and escape responsibility, probably using some of his other accounts to manipulate the value of 1 or 2 likes/dislikes again (once again this can be contested. I concede that some if not all the dislikes I or others have received are legitimate, but don't let dislikes control your life, fam), and I thought that nah, this time I'll give it to him harder, especially remembering his previous conduct.
But prefacing my story of the little incident that happened between Peter and I, I'll respond to Peter's understandable lambasting of my character (I actually think Jacques Villeneuve, in spite of all his s**t-stirring, was pretty great until somewhere round the middle of his BAR stint, I was rather impressed with him both in CART and F1 up to that point. Unpopular opinion, but I think Jacques was a better racer than his father Gilles, and Gilles was a pretty spectacular driver as most of you know, but I digress).
Anyway, back on topic. Peter and I have never raced in any league, and I don't mind if he beats me should we race (even though of course I'd aim to beat anyone). I've been beaten by plenty of great managers before, Paolo, Francesco, and Dome Nico from IGP Super Legend included, and you're free to speak with the managers of IGP Super Legend to ask of my conduct there. I'm not racing atm as I'm taking a break from racing activities on iGP, at the moment not being able to commit to the race times as I would've liked without some sacrifice, with my ability and form being secondary (though of course I'd like to be at my best but I can't win them all). That doesn't mean I'm away from the forums though. Also, I wasn't aware I held any records that Peter could beat until he told me, and I'm glad for his achievements and those cannot be taken away from him. I do remember responding something to the effect of, that while race times, lap records, and so on could be a good indicator of a manager's pace, comparing each other's race times is not a wholly reliable indicator of whether you'll surely beat this manager or not as the race could be a different story entirely. Various conditions could affect lap times and race times from car design to track temps, and of course the player's own choices of strategy and push levels and tactics, traffic and more. I might not have said all of that, but something to that effect. If Peter took that as a sign (surely not the only sign in Peter's view) of me being threatened by an up-and-coming manager (of which there are many. I take occasional breaks on this game and every time I come back, the competition is only getting ever stronger), then okay, that's understandable. If I didn't feel somewhat threatened I don't think I'd be able to have a competitive enough mentality to compete with some of the best managers on this game. Still, when it comes to competition, I try to do most of my talking in the race.
So really the only history I've had with Peter, in my view at least, has to go back to when I was scouting for managers for a new private league I was creating with some of my friends, and gives some indication as to why my attitude towards Peter Man is so. The following content on this post will be discussing that, and those reading are free to have their own opinions and stances regarding the issue. All I can do is share my point of view below. My testimony if you would:
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Sometime in June/July this year, I planned to create this new private league and shared this idea with friends on this game like Gary Collyer, the long-time iGP legend who is munching on popcorn and taking swigs of beer on the post right above mine. We wanted a league with as many competitive managers as possible, preferably some of the best managers currently active on this game, which was the reason for creating it in the first place. Thus it was our plan to invite managers we considered competitive and most likely would enjoy the league's format, and we would invite them via private messages, which is not something I haven't done before. I've mentioned Paolo, Francesco, and Dome earlier, and they were among the few we'd sent invites to as well. Anyway, Gary and co. and I would share which managers we were inviting as we were going about our scouting for the new league. Back then we had a reputation criteria, but amended it to having no reputation criteria sometime after we tried to invite managers like Peter Man.
I happened to be the one inviting Peter Man. My message to him was rather enthusiastic in tone, maybe overly friendly, but I was excited about the new league at the time. I explained to Peter that we were starting a new private league, that aims to have a field of competitive managers, some of the best managers on this game if possible, and that he was gladly invited. I understand Peter Man is running a league of his own too, and one of the members of his league was also someone on our wishlist and we'd also sent that manager an invite. That manager was Bastian Ba, who I'd also sent a message to at the same time as Peter. I believe this is one of the contentious points of this incident looking back at it now. I won't play dumb and say that nah, I'm not aware both of them were in the same league and I didn't know that as I was scouting them. I knew, and that's why in my invite to Peter, I notified him that we've sent Bastian a league invite as well. Likewise to Bastian, I'd notified him we were inviting Peter. I was aware Bastian had at least 2 accounts, and if he's interested in our new league he'd have to enter with one of them, and I am aware that a number of experienced managers have multiple accounts on this game. Still, I didn't want to come across as stealing managers from Peter's league, or anyone's league for that matter, hence my notification to Peter about any managers from his league we have also invited, understanding that managers like Bastian have multiple accounts and that I have no intention of coming across as stealing them from his league. If Peter wanted to join our league he has multiple accounts to do so as well.
Bastian accepted the invitation to our new league. Peter rejected, but rejected politely with no hint of ill feeling that I could read from his message then, though his message had quite a hint of pride that I found amusing at the time; it's nice for iGP to have some characters after all. I won't share his message as I didn't archive it and it's gone now unfortunately, but Peter's reply was by far the most prideful of all the managers I've sent leagues invites to through my 3 or so years of playing this game, and I don't deny that I can be a little prideful myself. He wasn't rude, just prideful. It was not the first bunch of league invites I've sent either. I think the earliest I've sent a league invite was back in late 2017. I send all league invites through private messages, whether I'm the host of the league or not, mostly to managers whom I believe are looking for competitive leagues.
So yeah, Peter and I were cool then, and during the introduction of Quick Races, we even found ourselves in a QR together. Valencia iirc. For some reason the chat wasn't disabled (as it is now on Quick Races), so we chatted, and he was a friendly bloke. He talked about his league quite excitedly, talked about his plans for livestreaming his league's races, iGP Youtube, which has some of the better production quality among the iGP manager videos you can find, and I wished him all the best with it and that I was looking forward to it. I talked a little about IGP Super Legend and other stuff, most which I can't remember at the moment. I remember Peter talked about how on QRs, you stop getting parts wear after a certain point, and I made a joke that went "Self-repairing cars. Biotech has come far", which got a laugh out of Peter. Yes, everything seemed fine between us then.
At the time I was hosting another league, League of Legends (I am not its current host now, or the host of the league I started with Gary for that matter; Gary's its host now). League of Legends is not the league I was creating with Gary, so yeah, seems unrelated to Peter for now, but you'll see. The original host of LoL had left to create basically another League of Legends as the schedule and time of the original was difficult for him to make it. League of Legends is also a private league and from the very beginning often recruited members through invites through private messages as well, while also having a forum thread. I was not on this game when the first season started, but when I returned to the game early this year I joined the league mid-season, having received invitations to join which I was grateful for and gladly accepted.
So it came time for me to do another update post for League of Legends, not the first one I did, and I wasn't the host back when I started doing these posts. Anyway, here's where the issue started. At the end of the post I was doing, I decided to be a little cheeky and this was my closing paragraph before edits quote for quote:
"If this race format is for you, and you are able to race at 21:00 UTC, you may contact Boomer Kid to request a place in the league and for the league's password.
If you receive an invite for League of Legends from anyone of our members looking to scout you for our league; we do not intend to poach you from your existing leagues as our invites are not traps or shady contracts in disguise and are only via private messages, and it is your choice to accept or reject the offer ?. Thank you and apologies for any inconveniences."
I definitely don't think it was my best joke but my mood was probably chipper at the time, or I was drunk, I forgot. I won't lie, the post with the joke about not intending to poach, our invites not being traps or shady contracts or whatnot, received dislikes. I think 3 or 4 dislikes in the span of like... 3 minutes? So I edited it, and here's an excerpt of it:
"Maybe my bad joke about shady contracts is pretty terrible. In that case, my bad. League poaching is bad, and that's why we can't go on other league chats to promote our leagues; the game has made this impossible too. Most players we have and had in both Leyendas and Legends have found these private leagues through invites sent via private messages."
It was a quick edit and I could have worded it better, and you may see the full post
here. I didn't mean to say something like: if it were possible to recruit managers by going on other league walls and advertising our league there, we would have done that. No, I've played iGP since the era of league poaching, and I have never done that. And anyone who had done so was met with disdain and sometimes intervention by the mods, culminating in iGP making it impossible for players to leave messages on league walls that they are not a league member of.
I got dislikes within seconds of responding to a completely unrelated post on the forums, and I felt that yeah, either someone's on to me or I made a mistake somewhere. I was willing to apologize for any wrong I've done.
Then of course Peter Man showed up, on the League of Legends thread, and you can read his post
here. For those who want to read the text without clicking the link, here it is, but I do recommend clicking on the link to the actual post as it has the hard evidence:
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"League poaching is bad, not sure if there is a difference for scouting to be honest.
Just my honest, constructive opinion, take it or leave it, advertise through the Forums. Once you start pming people, not only does it show you are desperate for players, it also shows that you are prepared to use these recruiting tactics, which some managers see as slightly underhand. Once you get a reputation as a poacher, your reputation in the Forums goes :/
It is for this clear reason, I have, and will never, search through leagues to 'scout' players who fit your Reputation threshold criteria.
Respect the many league hosts who do a great job in building up their leagues :)"
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It doesn't seem that bad on its own (still pretty out of the blue though), but if you clicked on the link you will see that Peter had screenshotted my private message inviting him to iGP F1, and to me it was quite clear he was using it as evidence of me being a league poacher who should be shamed for his poaching.
I defended myself, quite irate, and you can read my reply
here. I'd used the account I chatted with Peter during the Quick Race we had together in Valencia. I don't remember having that many dislikes, or dislikes at all even after a week or so of making that reply either, so once again either someone's gone back to those posts, or all right, that many people disagree with me and that's fine. But I also don't remember Peter having that many likes either, he had like 2 or 3 initially, but not that much, but I digress. I'll contain my accusations of alt-ing or manipulation of internet points for now.
Regarding that reply of mine, I don't think my points were structured the best, but the gist of it was:
- I'm being accused of something that is not against the rules of the game or against the good will of the iGP community to my knowledge, and which other leagues are also doing.
- The definition of league poaching as I know it, is managers going to league walls of other leagues they are not a part of and advertising their own leagues there. It was quite epidemic at one point which led to iGP stepping in and disabling chat on league walls by managers that are not a part of the league.
- What I was most disgusted with was Peter Man sharing the private message I'd sent him, and coming off like he's exposing some criminal, saying I am a league poacher and there goes my forum rep. I'm okay with constructive criticism, I'm okay with you rejecting our invite, but the moment you try to pull stunts to make me come off as a poacher or a thief, that's uncalled for in my eyes.
To further my point, the host of Leyendas also replied in the league's defense
here.
Obviously I'm not stupid and I felt that it was likely something had happened to Peter's league for him to make that forum post so suddenly, when he did not show much if any displeasure in my interactions with him before. I checked, and discovered that Bastian announced that it was going to be in his last season racing in Peter's league, iGP Youtube, before moving his teams around to race in our new league and 1 other league Bastian was also a long-time member of, German Elite League if I didn't get the name mistaken. Of course I felt partly responsible, but at the same time it was not as though I felt I'd stolen Bastian from Peter (holy s*** I'm writing this like a horrible romance novel), being sure to notify Peter that Bastian had received an invite too, and the same with Bastian. So in my further exchanges with Bastian via PMs I told him that I understand he has multiple teams and leagues he's been with for a long time and committed to, and I don't want to come off as forcing him out of leagues he's raced happily in, and that it is up to him to decide to join us with any team he wishes should he want to. Bastian replied that he intends to move to our league still. I apologize if I offended Peter somehow with my cheeky remark on my League of Legends post that mentioned poaching and shady contracts, but I don't believe it excuses Peter's actions. He wasn't just trying to take down my character, but the reputation of the leagues that I was part of and helping to host.
Back to my reply, it is quite evident by my not so agreeable nature on the forums in general, that I'm fine with having people disagree with my actions or posts, and I don't see myself as a perfectly nice person either. That is fine, I am willing to listen to criticisms, get told to stand down when I am going too far, and whatnot, even though I admit I could come off as incorrigible and intolerant at times. If you don't like the way I and other players recruit managers for their leagues, feel free to voice your displeasure. Reject our invitations, give criticisms that are constructive, and so on. Most managers I've invited responded politely and gratefully regardless of whether they'd accepted the invite or not, and I'm sure this is the case for other managers who also send out league invites.
What I am not okay with is attempts of character assassination out of the blue, as shown in Peter's accusatory post that I have linked earlier.
I did not archive my private messages to and from Peter when inviting him to our new league, so unfortunately I cannot prove with hard evidence at my disposal that Peter did not display any ill feeling on his initial PMs to me. I can only testify that Peter accusing me of league poaching on that forum post is the first I'd seen him voice displeasure with my league invites.
I looked through League of Legend's forum thread's history and saw that Peter seemed to have some disagreements with the initial members of League of Legends as well. I don't know of Peter's attitude outside of these incidents but I do hope that he gets along with other managers better than he did with us.
Peter was polite and friendly towards me in all interactions we had before that forum post, which is all the more why I found it both bewildering and disgusting, and I won't deny that it soured my enjoyment of the game for a few weeks. My break atm however is more related to my real-life situation. Some exciting yet challenging things to do and look forward to, and so racing in iGP will have to be put aside for now. I could have taken a break, if not retired since the middle of July, but I stayed for one more season as I thoroughly enjoy racing in IGP Super Legend and iGP F1. iGP F1 is doing well now in Gary Collyer's hands, and from the beginning I intended it to have a more collaborative feel, with the managers there each contributing anything they could for the league. I'm not sure when I'll return to racing to iGP, but when I do so, it'll be when I can commit to the game for at least a couple of months. And if Peter and I meet on track in the future somehow, I'm willing to put our mishaps aside, and I'll talk with my abilities in the race and hopefully take him down a peg or two. I am not saying all this justifies my tone of voice towards Peter on the forums, especially regarding his masquerading stunt, but I hope this gives some clue as to why I have the impression of Peter I currently hold.
As for who to believe and side with, all I can give you is my testimony here, and you are free to believe and side with whoever you wish in this little drama. Instead of writing another chapter for a kek novel of mine I wrote this, so I hope at the very least those here will have an entertaining, if rather long read.
Have a nice day, and don't get too bloated a tummy from all of that popcorn and alcohol, Gary.
