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Unresolved
Qualifying massive error

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medal 6381
104 days ago
Cosa hai provato a fare?
Nothing, just waiting for my top 10 qualification result.

Cosa è successo invece?
I was 0.376s from the poleman, with the same tyres

Il problema si è verificato durante l'utilizzo di dati Wi-Fi, mobili o entrambi?
Wi-fi

Il problema si è verificato nell'App, sul PC o in entrambi?
PC

Quale sistema operativo ha il tuo PC?
Windows 10

In quale browser hai riscontrato il problema?
Google Chrome

Può essere riprodotto il bug?
https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27825195&tab=qualifying

Commenti addizionali:
I have a good car, a tall driver (LOL), I would like an explanation about the bug about my team tonight.
md-quotelink
medal 6169
96 days ago
It happened again, to another account of mine.
https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27986599&tab=qualifying
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medal 5401 COMMUNITY MANAGER
96 days ago
Hello,

Your topic doesn’t explain what “bug” are you experiencing. One line isn’t enough to us. Please explain the problem better or unfortunately we won’t be able to assist you. Thanks 😊
md-quotelink
medal 6381
96 days ago
Can you see the two links of two qualifying results?

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27825195&tab=qualifying
The first one shows my driver, 23rd, 0.376s from the poleman. I had a competitive car, you could notice that from the qualifications of the previous and following races (I hope I don't have to link everything).

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27986599&tab=qualifying
The second one shows my driver, 12th, 0.578s from the poleman. I had a competitive car, you could notice that from the qualifications of the previous and following races (I hope I don't have to link everything).

Is it enough? I wouldn't know how to explain it better, it was very clear also before. 

md-quotelink
medal 5401 COMMUNITY MANAGER
96 days ago
Hello,

I can’t see any bug there, anyway I’ll mark it to Support since they’ll have more time than me to investigate it. 😊
md-quotelink
medal 6169
96 days ago
Six tenths slower in a qualifying lap for a driver that finished 2nd, in a competitive league, it's a huge distance, unexplainable. I also compared the car with other teams. 
Of course it was a report for the Support. As they know the game they will find something wrong. Thank you 😊
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medal 7054
96 days ago
I observed a similiar situation, our first race of the season. I was 0,5s behind the best car on soft. 
We had both 162 points in the big 4, both 36 in fuel and tire. The only difference in our cars was that i used just 1 cd with strenght in acceleration so had 54, there. and my opponent 3 for 6 races each, all with strenght big 4 weakness reliabilty. I can understand that another strenght might be more favorable than acceleration in Malaysia but 0,5 seconds is the equivalent of 100 design points in the current system. There is something wrong with the quali 
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medal 6412
96 days ago (Last edited by Joao Junior 96 days ago)
Hi,

this season since I'm not in Liga de Leyendas anymore I asked some managers to send me their cars before qualifying to compare them. So I can share some data..

Race: https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27825195&tab=qualifying

Paolo's car(23rd): https://prnt.sc/sbhizgTop3 sum: 415  Fuel economy: 29
Amuchina's car(8th): https://prnt.sc/sbh5xc Top3 sum: 413 Fuel economy: 27
Silva's car(27th): https://prnt.sc/sbh0zh Top3 sum: 315 Fuel economy: 32 

Paolo's driver and Amuchina have very similar cars(Amuchina little worse if you want to be precise...). Of course the skills are different, if considered individually, but the cars are similar. Their gap in quali is 0.326s.
Now take Silva's car, with 100, ONE HUNDRED, design points less with respect to Paolo's one. Their gap is 0.173s.

Is it not a bug? Ok, call it as you prefere, I don't care about it. But, I cannot believe that it's ok that Paolo has a laptime closer to the Silva's one and not closer to the Amuchina's one. 
Where is the development challenge if there are situations like this?? and if you also always say that it's all ok?
md-quotelink
medal 6224 MODERATOR
94 days ago

It's amazing that 100 points difference is less disadvantageous than 2 (or 4). It's certainly a bug, otherwise an explanation would be appropriate, since something strange always happens 
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medal 5832 MODERATOR
94 days ago
A possible explanation would be that tracks have a certain optimal balance value for the (performance type) car attributes (for example, the tracks had an importance factor for Downforce listed on their characteristics page in the old version of the game, that might be still in effect in the new, for Japan it was medium I think). 

Following that thought the amount of points on Braking in the most developed car might not only have a lower effect than those points spend on Acceleration and Handling, as in line with the general understood order of the 4, but might even have a more reduced impact as it's 37% of the big 4 compared to 33% and 32% if the track stats have an assumed optimal value of 29%. So for Braking the lowest developed car could have the most gain per point spent, followed by the, in the end, fastest. Downforce is extremely low and the same amount for all of them, but it's about 7.7% for the first 2 but quite less shabby 10.2% for the last due to its much lower total point count. So if anything below, say, 20% rakes up a little debuff on performance at this very track it would be much less affected and closer to the optimal performance, for the number of points spent, there. Still slower due to the much lower point count, but closing the better part of the gap towards the less optimised of the other two, perhaps additionally helped by a little bit less fuel.
md-quotelink
medal 6473 MODERATOR
93 days ago
Frank, I really appreciate the very sensible reasoning you have made. I also believe that balancing is very important, I always thought of it even before the driver's mistake was brought to zero.

In this case, however, I feel drawn into the matter, and in order to improve the feedback that Paolo left, I think it is useful to also post my car, qualified second in that race.



Paolo has 3 fewer global points in the top 4. Can balance be wrong? Okay, it can be wrong. It is a legitimate hypothesis.

What I do not explain, reading your interventions, your data, and the data that I have at hand, is that the difference between my qualifying lap compared to his was 364 thousandths. The difference between him and Silva (the one who has 100 DP less) was 173 thousandths. From this it would seem more than logical to exclude that the problem is the balance of skills; otherwise I would expect a linear proportionality between these data, which objectively does not exist and cannot be seen in this case.

I believe that the problem reported by Paolo is interesting and I think it should be investigated. It is rare that there is so much supporting data that can allow a productive analysis.
md-quotelink
medal 5832 MODERATOR
92 days ago (Last edited by Frank Thomas 92 days ago)
Thanks, that's really useful information as your stats shoots any suspicion that fuel weight might be a major factor here right out of the water, as your car had the best FE and still is just 0.038 seconds faster than the one with the worst of this setup of cars. Also your cars are very similar, just more Acc and, half the difference in Acc, less in Braking. 

Now there's the question how fuel is applied, you need roughly 0.1 less per lap than the Amuchina car, so it's either 1 litre steps (then either no difference or the Amuchina car would've been actually faster without extra fuel) or fine grained fuel differences at race effect, for which I'd wish I had more data, but between my guesstimate (which I think is a bit too low) effect and Qualifying fueled for one lap (or 2 laps with the fuel for the out-lap already being burned) and the Qualifying difference of 2 similar cars with a difference of 3kg ballast (which I think is a bit high) at 2 laps fuel (Qualifying lap and in-lap) would be between 0.003 and 0.022 seconds. So it could gnaw away even more of your little bit of time difference towards Amuchina but almost meaningless in comparing the Amuchina, Paolo and Silva cars (and the effect between them would be half of it).

So about the balance thing and it having to be linear. Let's continue the thought experiment and try if I can fix a set of 'perfect balance' percentages based on your and Amuchinas time to resemble Paolo and see where it puts Silva (and this time on actual big4 and not just lazily taking the sums above without noticing they are actually Top3 :-) ).
So I assume 32% Acceleration, 25% Handling, 30% Braking and 13% Downforce is the ideal.
You've got 33.11%, 30.44%, 29.33% and 7.11%. Sum of difference 13.11
Amuchina 31.01%, 30.79%, 31.01% and 7.19%. Sum of difference 13.60
Paolo 29.31%, 29.08%, 34.45% and 7.16%. Sum of difference 17.07
Silva 34.87%, 26.8%, 29.11% and 9.22%. Sum of difference 9.34
So you and Amuchina are 0.49 in difference apart and your Qualifying times are 0.038 seconds, so it's 0.07845s per point difference, so let's say 0.08. Since you're 13.11 points off that would make a perfect lap time with your DP perfectly spent a 1:30.540, as it's based on you yours remains at 1:31.589, Amuchina unsurprisingly is close as well as it's just the rounding 1:31.628 (1:31.627), Paolos time would be 1:31.906 (1:31.953), so I got it fairly close. Silvas time with your amount of DPs would've been 1:31.288, so in this thought experiment he lost 0.838 seconds due to having more than 100 points less DP in his car.
I'd say close enough, but of course no proof it's really, even remotely, like this and completely disregards fuel and (albeit small as they are all pretty close) driver differences.

Edit: I do wonder now by how much a car with 144 Acc, 112.5 Handl, 135 Braking and 58.5 Downforce, which would've been the car matching those assumed values, would really fail to hit the 1:30.540, as linear and equal between the stats effect of being off sounds too easy (as the stat values per point differ and the effect per point during the range of 1-200 is far from being linear, plus that resulting 'perfect' lap time just looks too good).
md-quotelink
medal 6381
92 days ago
Are you really saying that saving many points in braking I would have been much faster?
The advantage of a right balance is, for example, to divide 150 points in 50 50 50 (according to the track) instead of 130 10 10.
I always played with unbalanced cars, even in this season of course. If I reported those qualifying results is because there is something very weird.
Please Frank, this is a serious bug and we are reporting data to help the game, don't be confusing with imaginative theories, you don't have to write everywhere.

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27692251&tab=qualifying
Another data here. My drivers are 18th and 32nd. I haven't reported it before because it is only a tenth's difference, but it is still a bug.
md-quotelink
medal 6224 MODERATOR
92 days ago
You only have to read Joao's post to understand that there is something strange. But, more simply, it would be enough to play with this game a little bit 
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medal 6638 SUPPORT AGENT
92 days ago
Paolo
Are you really saying that saving many points in braking I would have been much faster?
The advantage of a right balance is, for example, to divide 150 points in 50 50 50 (according to the track) instead of 130 10 10.
I always played with unbalanced cars, even in this season of course. If I reported those qualifying results is because there is something very weird.
Please Frank, this is a serious bug and we are reporting data to help the game, don't be confusing with imaginative theories, you don't have to write everywhere.

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27692251&tab=qualifying
Another data here. My drivers are 18th and 32nd. I haven't reported it before because it is only a tenth's difference, but it is still a bug.

Hi Paolo 

I'll look into this on Monday. 
I have documented the feedback here and request the developers to investigate this. Depending on the priority of their tasks, it may take some time for them to begin their investigation.
Thank you for your report .
md-quotelink
medal 5832 MODERATOR
92 days ago (Last edited by Frank Thomas 92 days ago)
Paolo
Are you really saying that saving many points in braking I would have been much faster?
The advantage of a right balance is, for example, to divide 150 points in 50 50 50 (according to the track) instead of 130 10 10.
I always played with unbalanced cars, even in this season of course. If I reported those qualifying results is because there is something very weird.
Please Frank, this is a serious bug and we are reporting data to help the game, don't be confusing with imaginative theories, you don't have to write everywhere.

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27692251&tab=qualifying
Another data here. My drivers are 18th and 32nd. I haven't reported it before because it is only a tenth's difference, but it is still a bug.

While it's just a tenths of a second difference that Qualifying is much more telling as the other one, as, to me, it is just weird. Still it doesn't help to cry bug if we have no clue were to point the finger at. The devs have no time to do thousands of races to compare results and I'm sure they checked the theory of their calculations already at least once and found them sound.

Also, the doubling of the range made the game much more unbalanced by weakening the effect of DPs, and in the second half of the range a few points were not that powerful in the old range to start with. Also if effects of (missed) balance are calculated per DP, instead percent, then that effect has been effectively doubled.

Of course we can just enable driver randomness again and pretend anything off is just having bad luck. Or do manual Qualifying and if someones complaining that one of his cars is suddenly 1 tenth of a second slower than the other, or how it should, pretend it's just down to manager PL mistakes.

But if we want to get to the issue and want to have it fixed we have to be sure which results are pointing out that issue and which can be explained away by other factors, or even better know exactly what those factors are and how they are supposed to work and where occasionally is something amiss (or perhaps not and feeling like bumping the head against the desk to have missed something obvious explaining everything).
md-quotelink
medal 6381
92 days ago

Bruno
Paolo
Are you really saying that saving many points in braking I would have been much faster?
The advantage of a right balance is, for example, to divide 150 points in 50 50 50 (according to the track) instead of 130 10 10.
I always played with unbalanced cars, even in this season of course. If I reported those qualifying results is because there is something very weird.
Please Frank, this is a serious bug and we are reporting data to help the game, don't be confusing with imaginative theories, you don't have to write everywhere.

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=27692251&tab=qualifying
Another data here. My drivers are 18th and 32nd. I haven't reported it before because it is only a tenth's difference, but it is still a bug.

Hi Paolo 

I'll look into this on Monday. 
I have documented the feedback here and request the developers to investigate this. Depending on the priority of their tasks, it may take some time for them to begin their investigation.
Thank you for your report .



Hi Bruno, thank you for your help, as always!
md-quotelink
medal 6381
80 days ago
Following season, same track (Japan), this time was the second race of the season, very similar cars then.
https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=28110141&tab=qualifying
23 cars on soft, 7 were "bugged" with 6+ tenths slower than the others.
md-quotelink
medal 6381
73 days ago
I'm adding two more data. Malaysia this time, so always the same two tracks:
https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=28110150&tab=qualifying
Two drivers on M are much faster than the others.

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=28219810&tab=qualifying
First race of the season, one driver is much faster than the others.

Probably this is the thread with more data ever and it's set as as irreproducible...
md-quotelink
medal 6013
73 days ago
Paolo lets it go .... it's like talking to a wall .... they never understood anything about qualifying and instead of admitting it they say it's all normal .... do you want an example? today Austria qualified first and according to a manager who is fighting for relegation he used the same strategy as everyone and in the end he arrived 23th ..... this shows you that he did not have the best car .... but everything is normal
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