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Engine Modes and no Refuelling

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medal 5000
3 years 355 days ago
I know some people who are frustrated by the game, as it doesn't seem to mirror its real-world counterpart. The addition of optional refuelling bans for Leagues as well as push levels for Engine, i.e. Engine Modes, to still allow for mechanisms to help managers not run out of fuel. Discussion is much appreciated.
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medal 4937
3 years 355 days ago
Refueling ban could bring new strategies and I always say we need engine modes
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medal 6087
3 years 354 days ago
I fully support
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medal 5125
3 years 354 days ago
Yeah I agree with the refuelling ban or have qualifying effected by fuel load- either one would add a twist and allow more strategies. 
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medal 5000
3 years 354 days ago
I thinl a refuelling ban would be really cool. It would open up so many more strategies and bring a whole new dynamic to the game 
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medal 4955 Community Manager
3 years 354 days ago
Hello,

Can you explain a bit more about engine modes?
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medal 4996 Moderator
3 years 353 days ago
Yes, the option for a refuel ban would open up a whole new race experience and strategies. I don't think it'd be the better option but sometimes just doing something different in a while is a great thing in itself.

Engine modes is mostly mixture settings. Broadly speaking, on the rich side of the spectrum, leaner means usually more power and less consumption, but running hotter and higher risk of engine knocking. If you go richer you loose a little bit of power, have higher consumption but the engine runs cooler (as the additional vaporising fuel binds heat energy) and reduces knocking, which for using the same octane rated fuel means you could use higher compression or turbo pressure giving more power (but also even more consumption).

A really old game, Ferrari Formula One, from the 1986 turbo area, no refueling and max fuel limit regulation (192 litres?), did that part pretty well. Pre race you could set your fuel amount and ECU mixture, during the race you could adjust the turbo blow-off valve and thus pressure and power, on the fly. Setting lean ECU meant you could theoretically use more average turbo pressure without running out of fuel as the base consumption is lower, but lean ECU also already meant higher engine wear and risk to blow the engine by running it too hot on long full throttle tracks, too much average turbo power too long or simply going too high with turbo pressure (knocking). Rich mixture meant higher consumption at slightly less base power but you could use more turbo (and thus a lot more power effectively) more safely, but again in theory, as that large fuel display often showed pretty soon you're in trouble going on doing that. So you had to find the best compromise in ECU and in race dial your turbo setting both wisely and tactically sound.
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medal 5000
3 years 353 days ago

Frank
Yes, the option for a refuel ban would open up a whole new race experience and strategies. I don't think it'd be the better option but sometimes just doing something different in a while is a great thing in itself.

Engine modes is mostly mixture settings. Broadly speaking, on the rich side of the spectrum, leaner means usually more power and less consumption, but running hotter and higher risk of engine knocking. If you go richer you loose a little bit of power, have higher consumption but the engine runs cooler (as the additional vaporising fuel binds heat energy) and reduces knocking, which for using the same octane rated fuel means you could use higher compression or turbo pressure giving more power (but also even more consumption).

A really old game, Ferrari Formula One, from the 1986 turbo area, no refueling and max fuel limit regulation (192 litres?), did that part pretty well. Pre race you could set your fuel amount and ECU mixture, during the race you could adjust the turbo blow-off valve and thus pressure and power, on the fly. Setting lean ECU meant you could theoretically use more average turbo pressure without running out of fuel as the base consumption is lower, but lean ECU also already meant higher engine wear and risk to blow the engine by running it too hot on long full throttle tracks, too much average turbo power too long or simply going too high with turbo pressure (knocking). Rich mixture meant higher consumption at slightly less base power but you could use more turbo (and thus a lot more power effectively) more safely, but again in theory, as that large fuel display often showed pretty soon you're in trouble going on doing that. So you had to find the best compromise in ECU and in race dial your turbo setting both wisely and tactically sound.


beautiful everything beautiful but I did not understand anything ..... it's a game not a thesis for mechanical engineers .....

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medal 4996 Moderator
3 years 353 days ago
I was just trying to explain, without going into the depths as with fuel injection you can do quite a lot more things breaking that generalisation above. I'm not saying the game needs it. I'd welcome it but I'm hardcore in those things, the more to fiddle and tweak the better, but this game has to provide a balance between play styles and to be able to do a race per day, so I understand to keep it simple (on the outside, as going into the races it's nicely complex and there's no end to figuring things out). If I feel the need to fiddle in details with engine parameters I can still play Automation. ;-)
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medal 4937
3 years 352 days ago

José
Hello,

Can you explain a bit more about engine modes?


Basically, higher engine mode means more engine power and more fuel consumption, lower modes means less engine power and less fuel consumption 

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medal 4955 Community Manager
3 years 352 days ago
Patrick

José
Hello,

Can you explain a bit more about engine modes?


Basically, higher engine mode means more engine power and more fuel consumption, lower modes means less engine power and less fuel consumption 

Hello,

Thanks for the explanation! It isn’t almost the same than Push Level?
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medal 4937
3 years 352 days ago
José
Patrick

José
Hello,

Can you explain a bit more about engine modes?


Basically, higher engine mode means more engine power and more fuel consumption, lower modes means less engine power and less fuel consumption 

Hello,

Thanks for the explanation! It isn’t almost the same than Push Level?


Engine mode have some connections with push level, but it's not the same, and here is why:
Push level in iGP Manager is combination of driver push and engine modes becase push level efects on:

  • Tyre wear 

  • Tyre temperature 

  • Fuel consumption 

  • Driver's energy 

  • Other



Our idea is to divide push level into driver push and engine modes. 

Driver push will have effect on:

  • Tyre wear 

  • Tyre temperature 

  • Driver's energy 

  • Parts wear 



Engine modes will have effect on:

  • Fuel consumption 

  • Engine wear 



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medal 4955 Community Manager
3 years 352 days ago
Hey,

Do you think that real managers decide that?
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medal 5000
3 years 352 days ago

José
Hey,

Do you think that real managers decide that?



Real managers don't decide that but their driver isn't some bot so I would say that it could add a more interesting depth to the game.
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medal 4937
3 years 352 days ago

José
Hey,

Do you think that real managers decide that?


When you completely miss tyre temperature simulation, you can't talk about realisam 

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medal 5000
3 years 352 days ago
removing fuel would make races more boring, if you all run with the same fuel then every race would be the same.

right now you need to decide if more fuel for more laps will make you too slow but with fuel out of the way it will simply be 2 stops every race on softs.
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medal 4937
3 years 351 days ago

Dan
removing fuel would make races more boring, if you all run with the same fuel then every race would be the same.

right now you need to decide if more fuel for more laps will make you too slow but with fuel out of the way it will simply be 2 stops every race on softs.


We want to remove REFUELING, you will still have option to adjust amount of fuel before the race 

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medal 4996 Moderator
3 years 351 days ago
Also, at least until everything settles, the tyres offer choice. 3 stop Soft wearing to 40%, 2 stop Soft going down to 30% but can afford to loose 20 seconds in lap times or Mediums that almost manage to stay above 50%, or even 1 stop Hard as they can loose 20 and 40 seconds in lap times to still be the faster option. Then there's mixing compounds.

Of course in time people will settle into single dominant strategies, but that's often no different now with refueling, so that no refuel option allows at least 2 different races per track.
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medal 5125
3 years 350 days ago

Dan
removing fuel would make races more boring, if you all run with the same fuel then every race would be the same.

right now you need to decide if more fuel for more laps will make you too slow but with fuel out of the way it will simply be 2 stops every race on softs.

I disagree, think they’d open up more strategy choices. More likely to use SS to start because you know you’ll be quicker when you pit as you won’t be heavier. My personal preference would be to have fuel effect qualifying, but banning refuelling is another way to make it fairer and more strategic, rather than the pot luck qualifying it is now. Would also be able to alter strategies through the race depending where you are, allowing you to stay out longer if you want


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medal 5000
3 years 350 days ago

Mark

Dan
removing fuel would make races more boring, if you all run with the same fuel then every race would be the same.

right now you need to decide if more fuel for more laps will make you too slow but with fuel out of the way it will simply be 2 stops every race on softs.

I disagree, think they’d open up more strategy choices. More likely to use SS to start because you know you’ll be quicker when you pit as you won’t be heavier. My personal preference would be to have fuel effect qualifying, but banning refuelling is another way to make it fairer and more strategic, rather than the pot luck qualifying it is now. Would also be able to alter strategies through the race depending where you are, allowing you to stay out longer if you want





I agree. Now you make your strategy  and have no option really to change it as it all depends on how much fuel you have in the car. But with a ban of refuelling you could stop earlier and get the undercut or risk staying out for a long time and do one less stop rather than getting punished for having lots of fuel in the car
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