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Tire Delta and Refueling

What should be done about Tire delta and Refuelling?

27.27% (9)	Refueling to be banned
33.33% (11)	Tire Delta to be increased
39.39% (13)	Above both options to be done

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Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 299 days ago

The tires have a such low tire delta that fuel always dominate the race. There is a problem with this as there is no use of new tires if you are going to take advantage of it. There is only strategy to win at more races that is to run longer. I don't understand why we need to refuel still because we always don't see the true pace of a car. In lot leagues I don't see strategy that represent real strategy, real tire advantage this game still lacks realism in this aspect. Tire advantage should always dominate more than the fuel weight car. I think automatic pit stop strategy option is always keeping out cars out on tracks when they are still low on fuel. I think there needs to changes over either tire delta to be increased or either refueling to be stopped or both changes have to be done because we don't see more overtaking on tracks until there is fuel difference in both cars.

Timothy Barry
2 years 299 days ago

Downvote...

You are not giving the fourth option, which is to keep things as they are.
By doing this, you are forcing the issue, which I do not believe is in everybodys interest.

I would have voted in this fourth option and said that those other options should be implemented in the background by the league host if there is enough support for them.

That is my opinion on the matter.

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 298 days ago

Actually I missed that option I realized it after I kept the post So I am so sorry Timothy Barry

Lightning McQueen
2 years 298 days ago

To OP's point, I'd suggest adding a league manager setting for fuel. League manager could have choice to allow refueling or not to, and if refueling is set to not allowed, league manager enters amount of liters each car is to start the race with, so as every car is on equal fuel amount from the start. Of course, there would need to be a somehow pre-calculated minimum liters to enter, based on league race length, so that every car can make the total race distance on the fuel they start the race with.

Another option if refueling is not allowed could be to allow owners to set their starting fuel load on the race strategy tab. If the owner does not set enough fuel for the total race distance, the car would run out of gas and DNF. This could make fuel economy quite important, not to mention the different races strategies that might occur for tire choices and stint lengths.

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 298 days ago

Yeah that's right mate it could help. I like you idea because it makes to have great strategies and great races. It should be an option or to be an banned because fuel is becoming a predominant factor in the races rather than tires.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
2 years 298 days ago

So if you make tyres the predominant factor how does that improve things? It just means a different strategy becomes optimum.

IMO a league option of "no refuelling" would be a good thing but not because of strategy changes, but because it would:

a) Make FE a much more important design attribute and

b) Allow managers to go aggressive on a "just sufficient" fuel load but risk a DNF if their car runs out before the end of the race or be ultra-conservative but spend the entire race carrying an extra few kilos of fuel weight that they don't need.

To allow "no refuelling" to work the current trigger for pit stops (low fuel) would have to be changed so that the Manager chooses which lap numbers to pit in the strategy and which tyres to fit. When I mentioned this in the iGP volunteers Discord server it was met with quite a lot of resistance because it was considered too complex for casual players. It would mean that if you were running in a league where refuelling was allowed you'd have to calculate your fuel load for each stint and if you under fuelled your car would likely DNF as it would run out before your prescribed pit stop lap.

Rémy Gomes
2 years 298 days ago

Kevin

So if you make tyres the predominant factor how does that improve things? It just means a different strategy becomes optimum.

IMO a league option of "no refuelling" would be a good thing but not because of strategy changes, but because it would:

a) Make FE a much more important design attribute and

b) Allow managers to go aggressive on a "just sufficient" fuel load but risk a DNF if their car runs out before the end of the race or be ultra-conservative but spend the entire race carrying an extra few kilos of fuel weight that they don't need.

To allow "no refuelling" to work the current trigger for pit stops (low fuel) would have to be changed so that the Manager chooses which lap numbers to pit in the strategy and which tyres to fit. When I mentioned this in the iGP volunteers Discord server it was met with quite a lot of resistance because it was considered too complex for casual players. It would mean that if you were running in a league where refuelling was allowed you'd have to calculate your fuel load for each stint and if you under fuelled your car would likely DNF as it would run out before your prescribed pit stop lap.

That why IGP will never evolve fast when you suggest a New option witch it Can be disable by the admin ppl will downvote

Timothy Barry
2 years 298 days ago

Rémy

That why IGP will never evolve fast when you suggest a New option witch it Can be disable by the admin ppl will downvote

You have it wrong, there, sir. This should be, as well as other overreaching rules, only ever implemented by a lesgue host. There would be a lot more teams and managers that would leave the game if all of the potential new rules being discussed on here wewe made compulsary.

Personally, I run a league that does not mind how you set your car or strategy up. I think it makes for more interesting racing. It also allows for mid race strategy changes, if you want to mix things up.

If a host runs things well and has a set of hard rules that the entire league agrees with, then, it would be a simple matter (if changes are enacted) for the host to set those rules up for that league.

Basically, something like this needs to be a league, by, league, preference system and not a compulsory thing for all.

Rémy Gomes
2 years 298 days ago

Timothy

Rémy

That why IGP will never evolve fast when you suggest a New option witch it Can be disable by the admin ppl will downvote

You have it wrong, there, sir. This should be, as well as other overreaching rules, only ever implemented by a lesgue host. There would be a lot more teams and managers that would leave the game if all of the potential new rules being discussed on here wewe made compulsary.

Personally, I run a league that does not mind how you set your car or strategy up. I think it makes for more interesting racing. It also allows for mid race strategy changes, if you want to mix things up.

If a host runs things well and has a set of hard rules that the entire league agrees with, then, it would be a simple matter (if changes are enacted) for the host to set those rules up for that league.

Basically, something like this needs to be a league, by, league, preference system and not a compulsory thing for all.

Remember we have a vote system in this game , a host can ask what other manager want

Mikeeper
2 years 298 days ago (Last edited by Mikeeper 2 years 298 days ago)

I think the best option is to give the possibilty to the leagues' hosts to choose if the refueling is enable or disable in the league settings. So there will be many different leagues.
In my opinion, the tire delta should be changed a bit, not drastically and the hard compound must be removed.
A gameplay's mechanic that i wish being added in future is the slipstream. It's a difficult mechanic to implement but i think this mechanic could improve the number of overtakings.
And another thing that should be added is the double compound rule, always as a thing the hosts can keep enable or disable.

Timothy Barry
2 years 298 days ago

Rémy

Timothy

Rémy

That why IGP will never evolve fast when you suggest a New option witch it Can be disable by the admin ppl will downvote

You have it wrong, there, sir. This should be, as well as other overreaching rules, only ever implemented by a lesgue host. There would be a lot more teams and managers that would leave the game if all of the potential new rules being discussed on here wewe made compulsary.

Personally, I run a league that does not mind how you set your car or strategy up. I think it makes for more interesting racing. It also allows for mid race strategy changes, if you want to mix things up.

If a host runs things well and has a set of hard rules that the entire league agrees with, then, it would be a simple matter (if changes are enacted) for the host to set those rules up for that league.

Basically, something like this needs to be a league, by, league, preference system and not a compulsory thing for all.

Remember we have a vote system in this game , a host can ask what other manager want

That us what I am talking about, to be honest.

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 297 days ago

Kevin

So if you make tyres the predominant factor how does that improve things? It just means a different strategy becomes optimum.

IMO a league option of "no refuelling" would be a good thing but not because of strategy changes, but because it would:

a) Make FE a much more important design attribute and

b) Allow managers to go aggressive on a "just sufficient" fuel load but risk a DNF if their car runs out before the end of the race or be ultra-conservative but spend the entire race carrying an extra few kilos of fuel weight that they don't need.

To allow "no refuelling" to work the current trigger for pit stops (low fuel) would have to be changed so that the Manager chooses which lap numbers to pit in the strategy and which tyres to fit. When I mentioned this in the iGP volunteers Discord server it was met with quite a lot of resistance because it was considered too complex for casual players. It would mean that if you were running in a league where refuelling was allowed you'd have to calculate your fuel load for each stint and if you under fuelled your car would likely DNF as it would run out before your prescribed pit stop lap.

So why to try the undercut which always not available because if you take fuel consumption delta vs. tire delta it was observed that nearly fuel delta is higher than tire delta by nearly 67.98% which is quite high and if your tires are run also still you lap faster than the guys who have already. This is actually doesn't make any sense so tires should also make a important vital strategy element. There should be an option every league manager to ban refueling and nominate tire sets for every race and rules like no.of mandatory pit stops, design regulations. So there should be some major changes in the these above options/topics in the game.

Dick Dastardly
2 years 297 days ago (Last edited by Dick Dastardly 2 years 297 days ago)

Your ideas would quickly kill off this game, or at least a lot of leagues. There is no way I would stay in a league why the host could dictate how many pit stops I make or how I develop my car.

Timothy Barry
2 years 297 days ago

Mitchell

Your ideas would quickly kill off this game, or at least a lot of leagues. There is no way I would stay in a league why the host could dictate how many pit stops I make or how I develop my car.

You are not getting the genelral idea of this, so...

1) A league host will only enact anything after a league chat poll, usually, and this will lead to a general consensus. This is the usual case in any good established league.

2) In any well set up new league, these rules will be communicated before joining. If set up properly this will show in the initial league choice page and you will be able to select the rule parameters as well as race length, speed and days of the week to race.

3) In my opinion. Any rules such as the ones being discussed being compulsory, would lead to more people leaving the game than you think. Especially, more than if league hosts were to have the option...

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 297 days ago

Timothy

Mitchell

Your ideas would quickly kill off this game, or at least a lot of leagues. There is no way I would stay in a league why the host could dictate how many pit stops I make or how I develop my car.

You are not getting the genelral idea of this, so...

1) A league host will only enact anything after a league chat poll, usually, and this will lead to a general consensus. This is the usual case in any good established league.

2) In any well set up new league, these rules will be communicated before joining. If set up properly this will show in the initial league choice page and you will be able to select the rule parameters as well as race length, speed and days of the week to race.

3) In my opinion. Any rules such as the ones being discussed being compulsory, would lead to more people leaving the game than you think. Especially, more than if league hosts were to have the option...

If it is enacted in a present league they should be discussed because everyone has to on one boat to run the league perfectly and smoothly. So for new league there no such restrictions.

Mitchell Young, I am not trying to kill the game because I am also avid motorsport and formula 1. What are the chances are all league members will follow because I have seen it because every body take advantages to win the championship they just some times don't care about the rules enacted in the league by the manager. I think if there should be an option in the league to enact these types of rules so to make game more connected to racing fans. I think we have been through lot of eras because where used use 1 tire set for race to mandatory one-stop in race and refueling banned. Formula 1 is also advancing towards sustainability why the game doesn't change towards it because sometimes games can play major role in a person life sometimes. I don't understand still DRS because after your pit stop if you have fresher tires and have heavy fuel load but still doesn't help you to overtake as heavy fuel load dominates the speed of the car which decreases drastically. If you have refueling I think DRS not worth it after 1st pit stops. Yes it is helpful in first half of race until first stop after that it doesn't make an impact. So here also fuel has been dominating DRS power output.

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 294 days ago

In wet races it's more evident at races where it wet enough that wet tires should clear edge over intermediate tires but still intermediate tires out perform the wet tires due to fuel difference. I think there should a working range for each tire if not the tires will be harder to get into working range. So in wet races actually the cars power should be neutralized but still power of the car makes difference and fuel difference makes a lot of difference. There should be some fundamental changes in wet races. Wet races should be where cars should be neutralized.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
2 years 294 days ago (Last edited by Kevin Bissell 2 years 293 days ago)

At the moment fuel load is the predominant factor which means the "overcut" works because a car with low fuel on worn tyres tends to be faster than a car with new tyres but heavy on fuel.

You are suggesting the opposite where the tyre wear becomes the predominant performance factor. This will simply result in the "undercut" being a better strategy.

Within a very short time the top managers will adapt and before long we'll have another thread where members of the community complain that fuel weight is not enough ~~too much~~ (edit) of a handicap and as a result a car on low fuel can't keep pace with a heavy car on new tyres.

There's nothing wrong with these suggestions but if they're adopted it will just mean there's a different optimum strategy and it won't take long for people to discover what this is. Those of you who haven't played the game for very long will probably be surprised to know that before the 2018 tyre update the best tyres were Hards. They worked just about everywhere and the most common strategy in 50% races was two stints on Hards.

Something I've been banging on about for years is that temperature should have a MUCH bigger influence on both tyre wear and performance. If this were to be introduced it would mean that simply copying a strategy from a previous season (when the temperature was different) wouldn't necessarily work. It would also mean that the strategy for a race that happens at 4:00 pm would likely not work at the same circuit at 4:00 am when the temperature is much cooler.

This is slightly off the original topic but seeing as the thread is about tyre delta I think I can get away with it. LOL.

Juanito Jones
2 years 294 days ago

Kevin

At the moment fuel load is the predominant factor which means the "overcut" works because a car with low fuel on worn tyres tends to be faster than a car with new tyres but heavy on fuel.

You are suggesting the opposite where the tyre wear becomes the predominant performance factor. This will simply result in the "undercut" being a better strategy.

Within a very short time the top managers will adapt and before long we'll have another thread where members of the community complain that fuel weight is too much of a handicap and as a result a car on low fuel can't keep pace with a heavy car on new tyres.

There's nothing wrong with these suggestions but if they're adopted it will just mean there's a different optimum strategy and it won't take long for people to discover what this is. Those of you who haven't played the game for very long will probably be surprised to know that before the 2018 tyre update the best tyres were Hards. They worked just about everywhere and the most common strategy in 50% races was two stints on Hards.

Something I've been banging on about for years is that temperature should have a MUCH bigger influence on both tyre wear and performance. If this were to be introduced it would mean that simply copying a strategy from a previous season (when the temperature was different) wouldn't necessarily work. It would also mean that the strategy for a race that happens at 4:00 pm would likely not work at the same circuit at 4:00 am when the temperature is much cooler.

This is slightly off the original topic but seeing as the thread is about tyre delta I think I can get away with it. LOL.

I agree in parts with Kevin about no refueling:

The game would definitely get more complex for those types of leagues and the overall work to create this feature might not be used by many. And yes! Strategies would get an overhaul (like they did after the 3D was implemented), but it will settle down with 5 seasons, at most 👍

... On the other hand, I do think a slightly higher tyre performance cap after tyres hit 50% should be implemented as it would mean an undercut/overcut having similar chances of holding or even gaining positions and not a straight up loss for those undercutting, unless tyres for the others are as down as 30% (which are 1-1.5s slower only)

It gives the managers something to worry about not only for those still around, but also those who had pitted already 👍

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 293 days ago (Last edited by Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli 2 years 291 days ago)

Kevin

At the moment fuel load is the predominant factor which means the "overcut" works because a car with low fuel on worn tyres tends to be faster than a car with new tyres but heavy on fuel.

You are suggesting the opposite where the tyre wear becomes the predominant performance factor. This will simply result in the "undercut" being a better strategy.

Within a very short time the top managers will adapt and before long we'll have another thread where members of the community complain that fuel weight is not enough ~~too much~~ (edit) of a handicap and as a result a car on low fuel can't keep pace with a heavy car on new tyres.

There's nothing wrong with these suggestions but if they're adopted it will just mean there's a different optimum strategy and it won't take long for people to discover what this is. Those of you who haven't played the game for very long will probably be surprised to know that before the 2018 tyre update the best tyres were Hards. They worked just about everywhere and the most common strategy in 50% races was two stints on Hards.

Something I've been banging on about for years is that temperature should have a MUCH bigger influence on both tyre wear and performance. If this were to be introduced it would mean that simply copying a strategy from a previous season (when the temperature was different) wouldn't necessarily work. It would also mean that the strategy for a race that happens at 4:00 pm would likely not work at the same circuit at 4:00 am when the temperature is much cooler.

This is slightly off the original topic but seeing as the thread is about tyre delta I think I can get away with it. LOL.

Every track has its own properties like where in spa-francochamps where undercut should be predominent due to higher distance where has in monaco you will have overcut as predominent due to getting heat in tires. So my question if a track has its own properties why to be justified just overcut for every track. I am a data scientist, I do research on strategical games and I have seen a lot this game differs from. I just want to know why you are not trying adapt because tires are a factor in which racing games should be a central part of it. But I can see that people like to have different strategies as I have some data analysis how much each tire is dropping in stint and I find somewhat amazing as a tire degradation should in downward hyperbola curve but what data tells me that tire degradation is a straight line what about that(I took every 1 lap worth of fuel cost me 0.4 seconds). So just overcut at every circuit doesn't work you have to look just look at data. By statement you have given that you can't balance both tire delta and fuel delta come on lads....

Rama Chandra Anirudh Vemulapalli
2 years 290 days ago

I think properties of tracks shouldn't be comprised because there are lot of tracks like Spa-francochmaps, Mexico, Spain, Bahrain, Turkey, Singapore tracks are where tire wear So the best strategy should be undercut but because the tires wear out more due to distance, heat and higher number of turns. So the new tires on higher fuel load should be at least 0.5-0.8 faster on their out lap on the other car but it will not happen due to fuel. So other tracks where you can't get temperature in to tires like Monaco, Austria, Italy, Brazil it's good to go overcut. So I think there is not sweet spot for the any tracks in this game. If you don't have a sweet spot you can't imagine to have good strategies other than others are trying run longer and longer which makes no sense because you need to have more sweet spot and a balance between the tires and fuel load in the car.

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