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Outline: New Transfer System & Offices HQ

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Jack Basford medal 6098 CEO & CTO
3 years 139 days ago (Last edited by Jack Basford 3 years 139 days ago)
After the recent updates it's important to keep everyone in the loop on what we're planning to do next when it comes to gameplay. Today I'll start with transfers, which will be our first major gameplay update. I've attempted to design something that addresses as many of your requests as possible in the process.

THE PROBLEM - Issues with the current system:

  • A lack of high quality drivers and staff, particularly Chief Designers

  • Auctions last for hours, making it hard to follow and to check on their progress

  • There is often nothing new on the transfers list for hours at a time, due to the slow auctions

  • If you lose an auction, the tokens are not returned, which can be quite a negative experience

  • If you sell drivers or staff on auction, they often fail to appear in the transfers list, because the list is small and already populated with other drivers and staff that are being auctioned - this results in a high rate of failures to sell

  • The Offices & Hospitality HQ does not really serve a valuable purpose and is often overlooked when developing a team



THE SOLUTION - The New Transfer System & Offices HQ

  • When you sell drivers or staff, instead of an auction period which lasts several hours, this will be a "for sale" period.

  • Every 4 minutes the Transfers list will create new auctions using "for sale" drivers and staff, rotating them every time. There will only be one countdown timer for the entire list. All auctions on the list will start and end at the same time, lasting 4 minutes.

  • "For sale" drivers and staff that are not on the transfers list will be available to purchase with the "buy now" button, which will replace the auction on their profile. If they are pulled in to the transfers list then the "buy now" option will become unavailable (the final nail in the coffin for scripts to exploit the transfers system. I'll explain later in the post)

  • We will return Tokens to managers that don't win auctions

  • The Offices & Hospitality HQ will produce talented young staff, in the same way the Young Driver Academy does for drivers.



What are the benefits of the new approach?

  • You only spend Tokens if you win an auction

  • The transfers system comes to life, with something new to see throughout the day

  • You never have to wait more than a few minutes to conclude an auction

  • All drivers and staff that are being sold will have an opportunity to appear on the transfers list due to the constant rotation.

  • Alternating "bid" and "buy now" purchasing as they go in and out of transfers eliminates any possible script exploits. When "buy now" is available on the transfers list (as in the existing system) a script could scan the list each time it refreshes, instantly snatching any good drivers/staff, before anyone else even has a chance to see them. Frankly, this could even be happening now. It might be a contributor to the lack of quality in the market. In the new system any script would have to win a normal auction by bidding, and it would quickly run out of Tokens, making it completely ineffective. By returning Tokens to players we also ensure that even if there is a very determined bot/script bidding, they won't lose any Tokens in the process.

  • The Offices & Hospitality HQ goes from being almost obsolete to as valuable as any other HQ.

  • There will be a new way to scout and promote young staff as with young drivers.



Also, thanks to those of you who recommended I take a look at Top Eleven in the other threads. Anyone familiar with it will have seen the inspiration their auction system provided. It gave me some valuable insights which I then built on and incorporated in to the context of iGP.

As for how long this update will take, realistically, it's going to be a few weeks. I tried to design it in such a way that it wouldn't be a complete rewrite but could be built on top of much of the existing system, so that we can get it built faster and move on to other gameplay which also needs our attention.
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Antonio Ascari medal 5369
3 years 138 days ago (Last edited by Antonio Ascari 3 years 138 days ago)
Hi Jack, good suggestion, only bother I have: would this not mean players would push the price up for no reason like in real auctions?
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Venom King medal 5000
3 years 138 days ago
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.
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Archie Bald medal 6501
3 years 138 days ago

Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.



I think that's why there will be a new option to train staff. That easily solves that problem.


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Timothy Barry medal 5659
3 years 138 days ago
Antonio...

From what I can understand...

1)  Human nature would tell you to stop bidding as soon as you see one or two teams bidding in the way you are concerned about.

2)  If it is the same people you see doing this all of the time.  You can just choose to keep out of the bidding process

3)  I reckon that it would be easy, if reported, for devs to see the behaviour of any bots or hoarders in this sense, if using this new transfer market.

Also, the ability to find and train new staff seems to be a good idea IMO
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Jack Basford medal 6098 CEO & CTO
3 years 138 days ago
Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.

I second everything Timothy and Noob said above. You always have the option to stop bidding at whatever your budget is, and your Tokens will be returned, which is a key change in the new system. The new HQ will also allow you to recruit staff outside of Transfers, and you can still transfer between teams using "buy now", outside of the transfer system, which costs 9 Tokens.

There are also other factors at play in Top Eleven that their make their auctions as they are. Taking inspiration from their system does not mean it will be the same experience. I'm actually more concerned that you won't ever find anyone to bid against, with so many auctions going on. For example, Top Eleven reached over 100 million users in 2015. However many people you are bidding against in Top Eleven, you can divide it by 100, maybe even 1000, to get the number you will be competing with in iGP. Not only that, we have a bigger list of auctions than they do, and it's split by player levels. I suspect this is not true in Top Eleven, and they probably share the same list across multiple/all levels, scaling the attributes of the auctioned players to the winning manager. So whatever you're seeing there, it has very few parallels other than the 4 minute timer with what it will be like here. You'll be competing with probably up to 1000 times less people (especially after factoring in that the list you see is only being seen by other people around your level), bidding on a longer list of auctions.
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Dick Dastardly medal 5002
3 years 138 days ago (Last edited by Dick Dastardly 3 years 138 days ago)
Jack
Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.

I second everything Timothy and Noob said above. You always have the option to stop bidding at whatever your budget is, and your Tokens will be returned, which is a key change in the new system. The new HQ will also allow you to recruit staff outside of Transfers, and you can still transfer between teams using "buy now", outside of the transfer system, which costs 9 Tokens.

There are also other factors at play in Top Eleven that their make their auctions as they are. Taking inspiration from their system does not mean it will be the same experience. I'm actually more concerned that you won't ever find anyone to bid against, with so many auctions going on. For example, Top Eleven reached over 100 million users in 2015. However many people you are bidding against in Top Eleven, you can divide it by 100, maybe even 1000, to get the number you will be competing with in iGP. Not only that, we have a bigger list of auctions than they do, and it's split by player levels. I suspect this is not true in Top Eleven, and they probably share the same list across multiple/all levels, scaling the attributes of the auctioned players to the winning manager. So whatever you're seeing there, it has very few parallels other than the 4 minute timer with what it will be like here. You'll be competing with probably up to 1000 times less people (especially after factoring in that the list you see is only being seen by other people around your level), bidding on a longer list of auctions.


Top 11 is a very different type of game in the sense that it really forces you to churn your players otherwise you cannot progress and I think this is the reason why the transfer process there is so aggressive.  However, don’t assume that the same doesn’t happen here sometimes with the current auction process as I’ve seen some truly worrying bidding battles here.


Maybe initially some managers will get over enthusiastic with the new process being implemented,  but I beleive that it will settle down once managers a) understand the downsides of over-bidding in the new process 2) realise that staff/drivers will be much easier to acquire.

These changes should be a big improvement to the current processes.
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Juanito Jones medal 5000
3 years 138 days ago

Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.


Since when did losing tokens in auctions stopped people here in iGP on going 100+ K.O. rounds? ?

And Jack already answered very well here but worth mentioning again: iGP player base is way smaller; you won't face people from all levels when bidding; tokens will be returned and; in less than 4min you will have another go ?
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Mark Spencer medal 5000
3 years 138 days ago
Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.

100+ coin transfers in some exceptionally cases over at Top Eleven (very young relative age, forward position)

The 4 minute timer to be introduced will definitely be a positive step, keeping managers actively monitoring for the next cycle of staff members.

Antonio
would this not mean players would push the price up for no reason like in real auctions?

This happens in rare cases in Top Eleven, however the villain participant runs the risk of winning the auction themself, hence then having the 'bloated up' coin amount taken out of their account.

My concern with how it may apply in iGP Manager, is some players here, have held a plethora amount of accounts over an extended period of time, each generating 3 Tokens/day per account, and now holding c. 1000+ Tokens in each account.

In the scenario where the auction participants are known to the other participants (ie. other participating manager names are shown) there is nothing to stop these managers potentially logging into one of their alternative accounts, and deliberately raising a transfer price, possibly to spite a player.

Other than that concern, positive steps all round, and I look forward to using the new Office building on my main race account ??
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Dome Nico medal 5000
3 years 138 days ago

Jack
After the recent updates it's important to keep everyone in the loop on what we're planning to do next when it comes to gameplay. Today I'll start with transfers, which will be our first major gameplay update. I've attempted to design something that addresses as many of your requests as possible in the process.

THE PROBLEM - Issues with the current system:

  • A lack of high quality drivers and staff, particularly Chief Designers

  • Auctions last for hours, making it hard to follow and to check on their progress

  • There is often nothing new on the transfers list for hours at a time, due to the slow auctions

  • If you lose an auction, the tokens are not returned, which can be quite a negative experience

  • If you sell drivers or staff on auction, they often fail to appear in the transfers list, because the list is small and already populated with other drivers and staff that are being auctioned - this results in a high rate of failures to sell

  • The Offices & Hospitality HQ does not really serve a valuable purpose and is often overlooked when developing a team



THE SOLUTION - The New Transfer System & Offices HQ

  • When you sell drivers or staff, instead of an auction period which lasts several hours, this will be a "for sale" period.

  • Every 4 minutes the Transfers list will create new auctions using "for sale" drivers and staff, rotating them every time. There will only be one countdown timer for the entire list. All auctions on the list will start and end at the same time, lasting 4 minutes.

  • "For sale" drivers and staff that are not on the transfers list will be available to purchase with the "buy now" button, which will replace the auction on their profile. If they are pulled in to the transfers list then the "buy now" option will become unavailable (the final nail in the coffin for scripts to exploit the transfers system. I'll explain later in the post)

  • We will return Tokens to managers that don't win auctions

  • The Offices & Hospitality HQ will produce talented young staff, in the same way the Young Driver Academy does for drivers.



What are the benefits of the new approach?

  • You only spend Tokens if you win an auction

  • The transfers system comes to life, with something new to see throughout the day

  • You never have to wait more than a few minutes to conclude an auction

  • All drivers and staff that are being sold will have an opportunity to appear on the transfers list due to the constant rotation.

  • Alternating "bid" and "buy now" purchasing as they go in and out of transfers eliminates any possible script exploits. When "buy now" is available on the transfers list (as in the existing system) a script could scan the list each time it refreshes, instantly snatching any good drivers/staff, before anyone else even has a chance to see them. Frankly, this could even be happening now. It might be a contributor to the lack of quality in the market. In the new system any script would have to win a normal auction by bidding, and it would quickly run out of Tokens, making it completely ineffective. By returning Tokens to players we also ensure that even if there is a very determined bot/script bidding, they won't lose any Tokens in the process.

  • The Offices & Hospitality HQ goes from being almost obsolete to as valuable as any other HQ.

  • There will be a new way to scout and promote young staff as with young drivers.



Also, thanks to those of you who recommended I take a look at Top Eleven in the other threads. Anyone familiar with it will have seen the inspiration their auction system provided. It gave me some valuable insights which I then built on and incorporated in to the context of iGP.

As for how long this update will take, realistically, it's going to be a few weeks. I tried to design it in such a way that it wouldn't be a complete rewrite but could be built on top of much of the existing system, so that we can get it built faster and move on to other gameplay which also needs our attention.



???
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Rhys James medal 5015
3 years 138 days ago (Last edited by Rhys James 3 years 138 days ago)
Offices and hospitality being useful..... I never thought I would see the day ???
Anyways, great proposals and looking forward to their implementation
Personally I'd have entering an auction cost a single token to discourage random spending just to spite other players etc.
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Sunil Kumar medal 5000
3 years 138 days ago

Jack
Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.

I second everything Timothy and Noob said above. You always have the option to stop bidding at whatever your budget is, and your Tokens will be returned, which is a key change in the new system. The new HQ will also allow you to recruit staff outside of Transfers, and you can still transfer between teams using "buy now", outside of the transfer system, which costs 9 Tokens.

There are also other factors at play in Top Eleven that their make their auctions as they are. Taking inspiration from their system does not mean it will be the same experience. I'm actually more concerned that you won't ever find anyone to bid against, with so many auctions going on. For example, Top Eleven reached over 100 million users in 2015. However many people you are bidding against in Top Eleven, you can divide it by 100, maybe even 1000, to get the number you will be competing with in iGP. Not only that, we have a bigger list of auctions than they do, and it's split by player levels. I suspect this is not true in Top Eleven, and they probably share the same list across multiple/all levels, scaling the attributes of the auctioned players to the winning manager. So whatever you're seeing there, it has very few parallels other than the 4 minute timer with what it will be like here. You'll be competing with probably up to 1000 times less people (especially after factoring in that the list you see is only being seen by other people around your level), bidding on a longer list of auctions.

In top 11 they show same list to a lvl 10 as well as lvl 11 and 12, another list to 13 14 15 like this.....i have seen it coz when i was bidding for a player of my lvl and after auction, players stats automatically goes up/down according to owner team lvl. Btw you explained nicely....due to small player base it won't be a problem like it's in top 11

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Juanito Jones medal 5245
3 years 137 days ago

Sunil

Jack
Venom
It would increase the amount of token spending massively.....I play top 11 and for some good 6 star players it goes up 25/30+ tokens. Sometimes it hit 45/50. Imagine the salary increase. Many would go bankrupt coz of the high salary of driver/staff.

I second everything Timothy and Noob said above. You always have the option to stop bidding at whatever your budget is, and your Tokens will be returned, which is a key change in the new system. The new HQ will also allow you to recruit staff outside of Transfers, and you can still transfer between teams using "buy now", outside of the transfer system, which costs 9 Tokens.

There are also other factors at play in Top Eleven that their make their auctions as they are. Taking inspiration from their system does not mean it will be the same experience. I'm actually more concerned that you won't ever find anyone to bid against, with so many auctions going on. For example, Top Eleven reached over 100 million users in 2015. However many people you are bidding against in Top Eleven, you can divide it by 100, maybe even 1000, to get the number you will be competing with in iGP. Not only that, we have a bigger list of auctions than they do, and it's split by player levels. I suspect this is not true in Top Eleven, and they probably share the same list across multiple/all levels, scaling the attributes of the auctioned players to the winning manager. So whatever you're seeing there, it has very few parallels other than the 4 minute timer with what it will be like here. You'll be competing with probably up to 1000 times less people (especially after factoring in that the list you see is only being seen by other people around your level), bidding on a longer list of auctions.

In top 11 they show same list to a lvl 10 as well as lvl 11 and 12, another list to 13 14 15 like this.....i have seen it coz when i was bidding for a player of my lvl and after auction, players stats automatically goes up/down according to owner team lvl. Btw you explained nicely....due to small player base it won't be a problem like it's in top 11




You can have accountsbon different servers with completely different opponents, so that's why you might not see the same player in 2 different accounts ?

I always have bids against lvl 3-8 or 45+, which have more tokens, usually ?
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Kevin Bissell medal 5000 Super Mod
3 years 137 days ago
Mark
My concern with how it may apply in iGP Manager, is some players here, have held a plethora amount of accounts over an extended period of time, each generating 3 Tokens/day per account, and now holding c. 1000+ Tokens in each account.

In the scenario where the auction participants are known to the other participants (ie. other participating manager names are shown) there is nothing to stop these managers potentially logging into one of their alternative accounts, and deliberately raising a transfer price, possibly to spite a player.


I'm not quite sure how you think this is going to work. If the entire market refreshes every four minutes and there are potentially hundreds of auctions taking place at any given time, in the highly unlikely event that a manager with thousands of tokens wants to be vindictive against another manager, how would he know that the other manager was actively bidding in that four minute window and if he was, which staff/driver he was bidding on?
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Nando Lorris medal 5000
3 years 137 days ago
But this new system has still taken away the ability to gift an academy driver from yourself to a lower level team in your league. How are we supposed to know if when released that the driver will appear on their transfer auction list? Will they have to keep refreshing? I completely understand what you are saying about hoarding CD's, but academy drivers are now pointless as there is no guarantee that the person you promised them to will be able to get them. 
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Kevin Bissell medal 5000 Super Mod
3 years 137 days ago
Anthony.

Please see Jack's original post, The Solution, bullet point 3:
"For sale" drivers and staff that are not on the transfers list will be available to purchase with the "buy now" button, which will replace the auction on their profile. If they are pulled in to the transfers list then the "buy now" option will become unavailable (the final nail in the coffin for scripts to exploit the transfers system. I'll explain later in the post)

It is my understanding that when a driver is put up for sale there will be a short delay before that driver appears on the auction list. This gives a window of opportunity for any manager that has the driver shortlisted to make use of the "Buy Now" button.
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Mark Spencer medal 5000
3 years 137 days ago (Last edited by Mark Spencer 3 years 137 days ago)
Kevin
If the entire market refreshes every four minutes and there are potentially hundreds of auctions taking place at any given time, in the highly unlikely event that a manager with thousands of tokens wants to be vindictive against another manager, how would he know that the other manager was actively bidding in that four minute window and if he was, which staff/driver he was bidding on?

Hi Kevin,

There is actually a maximum of 60 auctions (30 driver and 30 staff) going on simultaneously, within the current marketplace/auction area.

Of these that are applicable to the example scenario posted prior, this would be approximately 4-6 auctions, namely comparable level Chief Designers. Afterall, would a Level 20 manager be actively monitoring Level 10, or Level 12 staffs for their team? I think not.

These 4-6 auctions can be all monitored relatively quickly, well within the 4 minute timescale, to any potential villain managers to raise, or spite an auction price of a rival manager (The last 3 auction bidders have their names visible)

As mentioned again prior, some account holders on this game have considerable storages of Tokens, across a multitude of accounts (100+ accounts) The ordinary manager, who will have access to 100-300 Tokens, will simply not be able to compete in an auction, with these 100+ account holders, who have amassed over 10,000 Tokens.

The new Office building will alleviate some of this problem, however the opportunity will still remain there for any villain managers, particularly for full 5/5 star Level 20 Chief Designers.

A solution may be to introduce separate Auction Tokens, for accounts passing the new verification process. This would create a far more equal playing pool for all managers to win an auction.
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Nando Lorris medal 5000
3 years 137 days ago

Kevin
Anthony.

Please see Jack's original post, The Solution, bullet point 3:
"For sale" drivers and staff that are not on the transfers list will be available to purchase with the "buy now" button, which will replace the auction on their profile. If they are pulled in to the transfers list then the "buy now" option will become unavailable (the final nail in the coffin for scripts to exploit the transfers system. I'll explain later in the post)

It is my understanding that when a driver is put up for sale there will be a short delay before that driver appears on the auction list. This gives a window of opportunity for any manager that has the driver shortlisted to make use of the "Buy Now" button.



I will try, but what if my driver does not go to its intended home?


 Was such a pleasure to easily gift drivers to lower level managers without all the whohaa of the transfer/auction.
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Kevin Bissell medal 5000 Super Mod
3 years 137 days ago
Anthony, this is what I'm saying, when the new system is introduced, this short window before the driver appears on the auction list will still allow people to "Gift" academy drivers to specific managers. 

Currently it costs the receiving manager 3 tokens and some game cash to purchase a driver that is sold using the "Sell Now" button. What I don't know is whether that price will increase to 9 tokens for "Buy Now" in the new system when the driver is not listed on an auction.

Even if it does rise to 9 tokens it's still a small cost for a teenage T20 low level driver who will be an asset to the receiving manager for many seasons.
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Nando Lorris medal 5000
3 years 137 days ago

Kevin
Anthony, this is what I'm saying, when the new system is introduced, this short window before the driver appears on the auction list will still allow people to "Gift" academy drivers to specific managers. 

Currently it costs the receiving manager 3 tokens and some game cash to purchase a driver that is sold using the "Sell Now" button. What I don't know is whether that price will increase to 9 tokens for "Buy Now" in the new system when the driver is not listed on an auction.

Even if it does rise to 9 tokens it's still a small cost for a teenage T20 low level driver who will be an asset to the receiving manager for many seasons.



I am sure that they won't mind the extra cost, would just like to know when this system will be active as am not going to risk losing a driver that i have spent 15tokens on promoting to my team for it to disappear to a person i have not intended.
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