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Strip Weathers
2 years 59 days ago

After our offline league race at Hungary yesterday, I'm beginning to wonder what the point of the advanced strategy options are. Very disappointing how the game behaved in our race due to rapidly changing weather conditions. Here is the race log for you to laugh at:

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=60097460&tab=race

Many of us had our strategy set to put dry tires on after x number of laps of no rain. Between qualifying and the race (10 minutes) it had stopped raining, but the track was still wet enough for inters. The track dried but most were still on inters, even after pitting. So if someone could kindly reset our expectations on how the advanced strategy options are supposed to work during rapidly changing weather conditions, that would be great.

Yes, we are an offline league. This is how we play the game. Regardless our play method, the advanced strategy should work as expected and right now it is a confusing mess, honestly.

Michael Craig
2 years 59 days ago

I’ll try work through what you are saying when I’m home later and will update this comment but as I understand it:

In the event of rain stopping during the race you will complete x more laps on your conditional wet weather tyre, before changing to the tyre selected to use in the second part of the advanced strategy. The laps selected is key, if you pit before the number of laps selected, you will refit your wet weather tyre and pit again when the prescribed number of laps are reached.

You will then use that tyre until water levels reach 0.0mm, after that at your next pit stop <confirmation required that it’s at the next pit stop> you will revert to a tyre from your default strategy.

Where it gets messy for my own understanding is that when the rain stops while on the grid, selecting 0 laps will result in you using the tyre from the second option straight away, but I’ve never got my head around whether or not selection 1 or 50 laps could also result on tyres changing on the grid.

Simone Villa
2 years 59 days ago

Here there is a thread about advanced strategy:

https://igpmanager.com/forum-thread_6/42023#272295

However now it looks that there were an improvement... but it is explained....

Strip Weathers
2 years 59 days ago

Our owners are discussing the potential or possibility of a race re-run. Before I even would put it to a league vote (because it would affect Elite, Pro and Rookie tiers), I would want to see if it is even possible for mods to help with something like that. Do any of you think that might be a possibility if we elect to do so? Otherwise it'll just get chalked up as a weird race like Spa last F1 season, but without all the DQs lol.

Dick Dastardly
2 years 59 days ago (Last edited by Dick Dastardly 2 years 59 days ago)

Are you in a league with 2 tyre rule? If so, this isn’t a bug.

It is a known issue with races where it is raining for qualifying and stops before the race, but the track is still wet. Under the current 2 tyre rules if it doesn’t rain during the actual race it is treated as a dry race and you,have to use 2 dry compounds. This is the reason so many people on inters for the entire race were disqualified.

There is a thread somewhere where it was raised and was answered by Jose.

It’s one of the drawbacks of offline races in a system designed for live racing (been in same position myself)

Michael Craig
2 years 59 days ago

Oh man yes I’ve just got home and seen the race data.

So there is a bug in here but it affects two of the cars which have been classified as finishers.

The written rule of the two tyre rule is that you must use two dry tyre compounds in a dry race.

As the rain stopped before the race started and didn’t restart during the race, this was classified as a dry race. Meaning everyone had to use two dry compounds to avoid disqualification.

Personally I disagree with how the rule is set up but for the most part it’s functioning as designed.

But this means two of the cars that finished should also be disqualified, as they ran inters and softs. That isn’t two dry compounds.

I don’t think a rerun will be within the criteria for one but you can always ask. As an alternative you may be able to request that the results of the race be struck off from your season without a rerun?

Edit: same Michael as before. Missed that I was logged onto my other account ?

Peppe V
2 years 59 days ago (Last edited by Peppe V 2 years 59 days ago)

Michael

Oh amico sì, sono appena tornato a casa e ho visto i dati della gara.

Quindi c'è un bug qui ma riguarda due delle auto che sono state classificate come finisher.

La regola scritta della regola dei due pneumatici è che devi usare due mescole da asciutto in una gara da asciutto .

Poiché la pioggia è cessata prima dell'inizio della gara e non è ripresa durante la gara, questa è stata classificata come una gara asciutta. Ciò significa che tutti hanno dovuto usare due mescole a secco per evitare la squalifica.

Personalmente non sono d'accordo con come è impostato la regola, ma per la maggior parte funziona come previsto.

Ma questo significa che anche due delle vetture che devono terminare essere qualificate, poiché hanno corso inter e soft. Non sono due composti secchi.

Non credo che una replica rientri nei criteri per uno, ma puoi sempre chiedere. In alternativa che i risultati della gara senza replica?

Modifica: lo stesso Michael di prima. Mi è successo il fatto che hai effettuato l'accesso al mio altro account ?

Tu dici ci sia stato un bug sul mio risultato finale e sono d'accordo, ho usato solo una mescola da asciutto e dovevo essere squalificato, ma ti aggiungo adesso un secondo bug successo sempre a me nella stessa gara, ovvero che nella strategia iniziale io avevo inserito uno stint di S e uno di M, con il seguente ordine IISM con stint da 20 giri ciascuno, ma in gara il sistema ha usato solo la S, forse perché nella seconda riga delle avanzate messo la S a 15 e 16 giri ? Non so rispondere a questa mia domanda, ma ritengo che se imposti le avanzate il sistema deve seguire ciò che io gli dico, invece non va così, fa un po' come gli pare e non va per niente bene. Perché avendo fatto stint da 20 giri e avendo impostato la S a 15 giri nella seconda avanzata, io mi aspetto che al giro 15 il pilota entra al pit e monta la S, invece non è successo, ha fatto finire il primo stint, è arrivato al pit, ha rimesso le I e il giro successivo è tornato al pit e messo le S, dimmi tu se ha un senso? Secondo me non ne ha assolutamente.

Michael Craig
2 years 59 days ago

Hi Peppe. Without seeing how you set up the advanced strategy it’s hard to say.

If you set the second advanced strategy field to run soft tyres after the rain stopped for a number of laps. You would run soft tyres until the pit stop after the water on the track reaches 0.0mm. I don’t think your car will automatically pit to revert to your default strategy until it’s next planned stop. If you have no more stops until the end of the race, you will cross the line.

Peppe V
2 years 59 days ago (Last edited by Peppe V 2 years 59 days ago)

Michael

Ciao Peppe. Senza vedere come imposti la strategia avanzata è difficile da dire.

Se imposti il secondo campo di strategia avanzata per utilizzare le gomme morbide dopo che la pioggia ha cessato per un certo numero di giri. Dovresti utilizzare pneumatici morbidi fino al pit stop dopo che l'acqua in pista raggiunge 0,0 mm. Non credo che la tua auto si fermerà automaticamente per tornare alla tua strategia predefinita fino alla prossima fermata programmata. Se non hai più soste fino alla fine della gara, taglierai il traguardo.

Ho un po' aggiornato con qualche elemento in più il post precedente per rendere più facile da capire, scusami.

Michael Craig
2 years 59 days ago

Ok I think I understand what you are trying to say.

Could you confirm a few things for me?

1. When did the rain stop? I am assuming it stopped before the race started.

I’m also assuming it never started to rain again.

Did the track ever fully dry? If so do you know what lap this was?

You are telling me that your planned strategy was:

Inters: 20
Inters: 20
Softs: 20
Mediums: 20

Advanced Strategy part 1:

<unknown>

Advanced strategy part 2: if the rain stops for 15/16 laps, use soft tyres.

If all of that is correct then I agree something seems to have gone wrong. As both your cars pitted on lap 21 to fit softs. Which shouldn’t have happened.

When it comes to using softs for the rest of the race. That will depend on when the track dried out. If it was after lap 61 which was your final pit stop, then advanced strategy has worked as designed. If it was before lap 61, then something else has also gone wrong.

Peppe V
2 years 59 days ago

Michael

Ok credo di aver capito quello che stai cercando di dire.

Potresti confermarmi alcune cose?

1. Quando ha smesso di piovere? Presumo che si sia fermato prima dell'inizio della gara.

Presumo anche che non abbia mai più iniziato a piovere.

La pista si è mai asciugata completamente? Se sì, sai che giro è stato?

Mi stai dicendo che la tua strategia pianificata era:

Inter: 20
Inter: 20
Soft: 20
Medium: 20

Strategia Avanzata parte 1:

<sconosciuto>

Strategia Avanzata parte 2: se la pioggia smette per 15/16 giri, usa le gomme morbide.

Se tutto ciò è corretto, sono d'accordo che qualcosa sembra essere andato storto. Poiché entrambe le tue auto si sono fermate ai box al 21° giro per montare le soft. Cosa che non sarebbe dovuta succedere.

Quando si tratta di usare le soft per il resto della gara. Dipenderà da quando la pista si sarà asciugata. Se è stato dopo il giro 61 che è stato il tuo ultimo pit stop, la strategia avanzata ha funzionato come previsto. Se era prima del giro 61, allora anche qualcos'altro è andato storto.

Ha smesso di piovere poco prima delle qualifiche, infatti tutti hanno fatto qualifiche con W, io avevo prima avanzata con 3mm e W, al giro dieci la pista era già asciutta e non ha mai più piovuto. Le mie auto sono entrate al primo pit con la pista completamente asciutta e mi ha rimesso le Intermedie per un solo giro, dopo sono rientrati e messo le S ed ha continuato con le S anche nei pit successivi.ti confermo i 4 stint da 20 con l'ordine I I S M. Questo è tutto.

Simone Villa
2 years 59 days ago

Pit stop after 1 lap is caused by the "hidden advanded" . I several explained this to Gustavo and he made his solution. But his solution doens't avoid situation like this.

Hiddend advanced works in this way:
If you are on W or I and the water is 0mm, system check further stint.
If the further stint is the same tyre he goes on, if it is different he makes a pit stop after 1 lap for changing tyre.
In this case Peppe has 20 I 20 I 20 S 20 W.
Water is at 0mm after 10 laps.
So his drivers finished first stint with I because second stint is still with I.
The first stint is on S , so Hidden advanded call drivers to a pit stop to put S after 1 lap.

It is very easy to riproduce the Hidden advanced: in a dry race make a strategy 10 W 10 I 10 M.
Your driver will make this:

1 W 1I 10 M 10 M.....

Hidden advanced is often in competitions with advanced 2 and creates a lot of confusion.

But here we have also another problem:why Peppe drivers didn't put M ?bug?

Dick Dastardly
2 years 59 days ago

Simone

Pit stop after 1 lap is caused by the "hidden advanded" . I several explained this to Gustavo and he made his solution. But his solution doens't avoid situation like this.

Hiddend advanced works in this way:
If you are on W or I and the water is 0mm, system check further stint.
If the further stint is the same tyre he goes on, if it is different he makes a pit stop after 1 lap for changing tyre.
In this case Peppe has 20 I 20 I 20 S 20 W.
Water is at 0mm after 10 laps.
So his drivers finished first stint with I because second stint is still with I.
The first stint is on S , so Hidden advanded call drivers to a pit stop to put S after 1 lap.

It is very easy to riproduce the Hidden advanced: in a dry race make a strategy 10 W 10 I 10 M.
Your driver will make this:

1 W 1I 10 M 10 M.....

Hidden advanced is often in competitions with advanced 2 and creates a lot of confusion.

But here we have also another problem:why Peppe drivers didn't put M ?bug?

I agree here with Simone. What he describes is exactly what I see in wet/dry offline races. The lack of mediums is strange though, but perhaps similar to the bug I have seen where a driver changes from a wet to a dry tyre and then pits every lap until the end of the race. These type of bugs seem to occur occasionally in offline races ?‍♂️

Frank Thomas Moderator
2 years 58 days ago

Yes, also two things I haven't seen addressed. Both from the desciption and disqualification behavior there was never rain during the race, so adv. 2 never started its lap count down and thus didn't trigger, as for that rain has to stop during the race.

Also there's something with tyre rule. Still unconfirmed why, bug or slipped through deliberate change, there are lately many, maybe even all, races in drying conditions were any 2 compounds work to avoid disqualification and not as it used to be and written in changelog as rule 2 dry compounds.

Edit: About any 2 compounds, I haven't seen a case with Wets yet, so not sure what might happen with Wet + any other compound.

Simone Villa
2 years 58 days ago

There is also another possibility:
This league is offline So penalty can start from basic strategy set.
While in a live league , penalty is considered at the end.

Is it possible?

Frank Thomas Moderator
2 years 58 days ago

In theory possible but I doubt there are different behaviors especially as at every time of a race a manager could join. Also this penalty behavior happened in live races with managers present. So it's more questions of if the original behavior still happens at all and bug or intended to make it less complicated and solve issues like having to use 2 dry compounds in a potentially 90%+ wet short race that either slipped into live prematurely or forgotten in change log.

Simone Villa
2 years 57 days ago

Michael

Ok I think I understand what you are trying to say.

Could you confirm a few things for me?

1. When did the rain stop? I am assuming it stopped before the race started.

I’m also assuming it never started to rain again.

Did the track ever fully dry? If so do you know what lap this was?

You are telling me that your planned strategy was:

Inters: 20
Inters: 20
Softs: 20
Mediums: 20

Advanced Strategy part 1:

<unknown>

Advanced strategy part 2: if the rain stops for 15/16 laps, use soft tyres.

If all of that is correct then I agree something seems to have gone wrong. As both your cars pitted on lap 21 to fit softs. Which shouldn’t have happened.

When it comes to using softs for the rest of the race. That will depend on when the track dried out. If it was after lap 61 which was your final pit stop, then advanced strategy has worked as designed. If it was before lap 61, then something else has also gone wrong.

Please check Singapore race of this league:

https://igpmanager.com/app/p=league&id=132010

My team is correct but check Audi team: he had M after 14 laps.
Rain stopped at lap 17 ( confirmed by my team that has put Intermedium after 0 lap). So we expected that at lap 31 Audi should put M tyre but he stopped before because of basic strategy and never put M.

So I have to think this: if you make a pit stop before Ending of countdown of advanced 2, advanced 2 doesn't work!

What do you think?

Frank Thomas Moderator
2 years 56 days ago

I think yes, it looks like a regular pit stop during adv2 countdown in progress disables it.

Simone Villa
2 years 56 days ago

i think that now it could be better update "tutorial of advanced ", don't you think?

Frank Thomas Moderator
2 years 56 days ago

There could be one more in depth tutorial, but every time I think I've about to get it how AS works some race comes along saying 'Nice try, but nope', or something changes behavior altogether in more or less tiny ways. So I'm more one in need of a complete tutorial than in a position to compile it.

Is it just me or is something as simple as trying to figure out a couple of AS options giving a surprising clue of how researching theoretical physics must feel. :-)

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