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Research Buff Or Rescaling

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Archie Bald
1 year 186 days ago (Last edited by Archie Bald 1 year 186 days ago)

Having played with a higher level account versus the lower leveled ones for a bit, It's quite obvious research loss gets progressively worse.

This phenomenon, pre-level 30 update was not an issue but in the attempts to make the new levels as close as possible has become a major issue.

Previously, the difference in tech levels mitigated the loss in research. That is out of the window now and just seems the higher you go, the worse off you are in competitiveness.

My suggestion is to make a buff available for research, similar to the 2X XP buff. This should be made available only to level 21+ accounts and scaled in 1% increments like so ?

Level 21 - 1% buff
Level 22 - 2% buff
...
Level 30 - 10% buff

The tokens cost can also be similar to the 2X XP, that's very reasonable.

Now alternatively, you could be nice and just rescale research for level 21+ accounts ?.

?.

Michael Craig
1 year 186 days ago

I’d much rather the research percentages were reviewed as a whole for balance rather than a benefit paywalled. I’ve not got far enough through the level progress to experience the impacts yet but it has been playing on my mind that 10% at level 30 would be virtually no research.

Your proposal To me equates to selling additional car design points on a per season basis, a big No Thank you from me. It’s not a direction I’d be happy to see the game move in.

Interested to discuss rescaling gains once I’ve had more time to look at things myself though.

Archie Bald
1 year 186 days ago

Michael

I’d much rather the research percentages were reviewed as a whole for balance rather than a benefit paywalled. I’ve not got far enough through the level progress to experience the impacts yet but it has been playing on my mind that 10% at level 30 would be virtually no research.

Your proposal To me equates to selling additional car design points on a per season basis, a big No Thank you from me. It’s not a direction I’d be happy to see the game move in.

Interested to discuss rescaling gains once I’ve had more time to look at things myself though.

The research rescaling will be a welcome relief.

The 3% loss per level is just too much as you progress.

Either a rescale or an improved tech effect.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
1 year 186 days ago

But at L30 you're getting 10dp per race more from your design HQ than a L20, so surely the fact you only get 10% research against a L20's 40% goes some way to levelling the playing field.

With the suggested buff at L30 you would still get 10 more dp every race but your research would be 30% against a L20 40%.

It's already hard enough for lower level managers to compete, wouldn't this suggestion make the situation even worse?

It only really affects the dp savers, but surely that just means that hoarding dp will not be an effective tactic for higher level players.

Archie Bald
1 year 186 days ago

Kevin

But at L30 you're getting 10dp per race more from your design HQ than a L20, so surely the fact you only get 10% research against a L20's 40% goes some way to levelling the playing field.

With the suggested buff at L30 you would still get 10 more dp every race but your research would be 30% against a L20 40%.

It's already hard enough for lower level managers to compete, wouldn't this suggestion make the situation even worse?

It only really affects the dp savers, but surely that just means that hoarding dp will not be an effective tactic for higher level players.

You mean 20%? Level 30 research is 10%.

Yes you are getting more dp per race, which in turn is making the lower level manager even more competitive due to the bigger research (if we use your counter of dp saving no longer being the norm).

As mentioned above, maybe if the effects of the tech can be bumped up, then maybe...

Fried Rice
1 year 186 days ago

High level gets
better drs
better battery
more design points
better drivers

and only downside is
slower research

Advantage of being higher level is already bit too high lets not make it worse

Fried Rice
1 year 186 days ago (Last edited by Fried Rice 1 year 186 days ago)

If we work it out mathematically, regardless of what level the managers are, a lower level manager can make more dp per race than a higher level one only if the gap to the top team is >= 34.

I am not sure if the gaps between any attributes are ever so big, unless someone hoards dp for a couple of races at least.

Added to that there is an additional advantage of better tech, and the ceiling for the driver stats is higher before the stars turn red as mentioned above.

Not to forget the benefit of more flexible points (i.e., points which you can spend where you want to).

John Doe
1 year 186 days ago

I quote yourself Archie:

I just keep seeing these suggestions and can't help laughing but I mean COME ON! ?.

We only miss a win boost and championship points boost if this is approved. The answer is all in Pas Bost's post.

Archie Bald
1 year 186 days ago

Giovanni

I quote yourself Archie:

I just keep seeing these suggestions and can't help laughing but I mean COME ON! ?.

We only miss a win boost and championship points boost if this is approved. The answer is all in Pas Bost's post.

I know I live rent free in your head, it’s a skill of mine.

Your opinion will matter when you’ve experienced what the post is talking about, till then keep speculating ?.

John Doe
1 year 186 days ago

Archie

I know I live rent free in your head, it’s a skill of mine.

Yep, probably is true and my quote was unnecessary. My original answer was the last line but let me return your same coin whenever possible. Maybe it can help you to be less rude when criticing others (not only me).

Fried Rice
1 year 185 days ago

Edd

Pas

High level gets
better drs
better battery
more design points
better drivers

and only downside is
slower research

Advantage of being higher level is already bit too high lets not make it worse

This is not as accurate as you have depicted. The scaling of the drs, battery, has made their effect quite reduced. It’s not as effective, if it were then the slower research would be fine.

I agree on more design points but not on better drivers. Either way, I’m not convinced the newer levels are balanced enough.

You disagree on better drivers? Thats not really something you can disagree on it is factual. A higher level account can train their drivers further than a lower level. So they have better drivers.

Archie Bald
1 year 185 days ago

Pas

Edd

Pas

High level gets
better drs
better battery
more design points
better drivers

and only downside is
slower research

Advantage of being higher level is already bit too high lets not make it worse

This is not as accurate as you have depicted. The scaling of the drs, battery, has made their effect quite reduced. It’s not as effective, if it were then the slower research would be fine.

I agree on more design points but not on better drivers. Either way, I’m not convinced the newer levels are balanced enough.

You disagree on better drivers? Thats not really something you can disagree on it is factual. A higher level account can train their drivers further than a lower level. So they have better drivers.

I think what he means is that the gaps due to the scaling are so small now that there's really no 'better' driver. Maybe that will change with the coming update.

John Doe
1 year 185 days ago

Archie

Having played with a higher level account versus the lower leveled ones for a bit, It's quite obvious research loss gets progressively worse.

This phenomenon, pre-level 30 update was not an issue but in the attempts to make the new levels as close as possible has become a major issue.

Previously, the difference in tech levels mitigated the loss in research. That is out of the window now and just seems the higher you go, the worse off you are in competitiveness.

My suggestion is to make a buff available for research, similar to the 2X XP buff. This should be made available only to level 21+ accounts and scaled in 1% increments like so ?

Level 21 - 1% buff
Level 22 - 2% buff
...
Level 30 - 10% buff

The tokens cost can also be similar to the 2X XP, that's very reasonable.

Now alternatively, you could be nice and just rescale research for level 21+ accounts ?.

?.

Why we can't do the same thing without making extra payment?

Archie Bald
1 year 185 days ago

Night

Archie

Having played with a higher level account versus the lower leveled ones for a bit, It's quite obvious research loss gets progressively worse.

This phenomenon, pre-level 30 update was not an issue but in the attempts to make the new levels as close as possible has become a major issue.

Previously, the difference in tech levels mitigated the loss in research. That is out of the window now and just seems the higher you go, the worse off you are in competitiveness.

My suggestion is to make a buff available for research, similar to the 2X XP buff. This should be made available only to level 21+ accounts and scaled in 1% increments like so ?

Level 21 - 1% buff
Level 22 - 2% buff
...
Level 30 - 10% buff

The tokens cost can also be similar to the 2X XP, that's very reasonable.

Now alternatively, you could be nice and just rescale research for level 21+ accounts ?.

?.

Why we can't do the same thing without making extra payment?

Hey Night ?,

That's why I included this bit -

"Now alternatively, you could be nice and just rescale research for level 21+ accounts "

Chris Stanley
1 year 181 days ago

Michael

I’d much rather the research percentages were reviewed as a whole for balance rather than a benefit paywalled. I’ve not got far enough through the level progress to experience the impacts yet but it has been playing on my mind that 10% at level 30 would be virtually no research.

Your proposal To me equates to selling additional car design points on a per season basis, a big No Thank you from me. It’s not a direction I’d be happy to see the game move in.

Interested to discuss rescaling gains once I’ve had more time to look at things myself though.

Fully agree. Car research is a fun and important part of the game. Taking it to 10% at level 30 will make it borderline irrelevant, removing a fun part of the game. Some will say to take it to 10% as we will have 10 more DP / race, but why basically remove a feature? Planning your research is such a good part of the game. It should be either 30% or 20%, and the whole scale rescaled with this. Hopefully the devs will make this a priority as people are now reaching level 24 and getting up the ladder.

It also greatly disadvantages those who have paid their hard earned £ on XP boosts to level up quickly (I’m not one of those, thinking of everyone with this), which seems wrong. It could even put some off buying these XP boosts with this in mind, and surely the devs want to keep the £ flowing. Someone who is 2-3 levels ahead will be almost 10% down on research, how crazy.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
1 year 181 days ago

The hard earned £ spent on XP boost isn't wasted.

You get:
Faster to train drivers
Greater chance of high Talent drivers in your academy
More DP per race to spend on the attributes you want to spend it on (research only gives you points where others have spent)
More boost
Higher power DRS

Higher level research for lower level managers goes some way to balancing this. If you make research for L30 Managers higher the entire research and design model will need to be carefully thought about otherwise car designs will be maxed out by mid-season and the game will become even more unbalanced towards those who are fortunate enough to have sufficient funds to spend their their way to success.

At L30 you get 30 dp every race and 10% research
At L20 you get 20 dp every race and 40% research
I know which I'd prefer.

Archie Bald
1 year 181 days ago (Last edited by Archie Bald 1 year 181 days ago)

Kevin

The hard earned £ spent on XP boost isn't wasted.

You get:
Faster to train drivers
Greater chance of high Talent drivers in your academy
More DP per race to spend on the attributes you want to spend it on (research only gives you points where others have spent)
More boost
Higher power DRS

Higher level research for lower level managers goes some way to balancing this. If you make research for L30 Managers higher the entire research and design model will need to be carefully thought about otherwise car designs will be maxed out by mid-season and the game will become even more unbalanced towards those who are fortunate enough to have sufficient funds to spend their their way to success.

At L30 you get 30 dp every race and 10% research
At L20 you get 20 dp every race and 40% research
I know which I'd prefer.

Why are you only comparing two extremes and ignoring everything in between?

The OP (as I made the post when I was level 23) and Stanley's comment references the big disparity between accounts with 2 - 3 levels apart.

Now let's go through your fact sheet using a level 24 VS a level 21 (That's 3 solid level differences)

1. Faster to train drivers: Maybe. Imo not necessarily faster but maybe cheaper due to the higher ceiling.

2. Greater chance of high Talent drivers in your academy: I'd argue false, from personal experience my level 24 accounts didn't suddenly and magically start shooting out higher talented levels than my level 22 account.

3. More DP per race to spend on the attributes you want to spend it on: Yes, I get a whole 3 extra DP.

4. More boost: FALSE! Theoretically I should but in reality the effects remain the same.

5. Higher power DRS: FALSE! Again the effects remain the same.

I totally agree with Stanley here, my 3 extra dp per race does not make up for the 9% loss in research if every other thing basically remains the same.

Level 21 VS level 24, I know which I prefer.

Chris Stanley
1 year 181 days ago

I understand Kevin’s points, but even if I disagree somewhat, let’s not fixate on the differences between levels. Instead, let’s think about the quality of the end game, when everyone eventually gets to level 30 (like how everyone reached level 20).

If not adjusted, 10% research is nothing. A fantastic part of the game’s simple but actually very fun car design and car planning will be made worse. Why do this? To help out lower levels? That’s a silly way to design a game.

The design game will become: spend acceleration > spend handling > spend braking > spend downforce. Boring. And before we have mentions of the devs introducing more relevant attributes elsewhere so that you don’t focus in that order, that isn’t happening any time soon, and even if it does happen, the research should still remain at a higher %, as it is/was fantastic fun with how it was. Car design was one of the parts of the game that the devs really nailed, let’s hope they re-adjust back to it.

Archie Bald
1 year 181 days ago

Chris

I understand Kevin’s points, but even if I disagree somewhat, let’s not fixate on the differences between levels. Instead, let’s think about the quality of the end game, when everyone eventually gets to level 30 (like how everyone reached level 20).

If not adjusted, 10% research is nothing. A fantastic part of the game’s simple but actually very fun car design and car planning will be made worse. Why do this? To help out lower levels? That’s a silly way to design a game.

Unfortunately to get it balanced, the differences between each levels will need to be taken into consideration.

It's a tough job I admit, but like you said, if it's not balanced then a fundamental part of the game will be killed off.

Car dev + research is a skill set and crucial to the game.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
1 year 181 days ago (Last edited by Kevin Bissell 1 year 181 days ago)

I agree with you that car development is a skill and an important element of the game. But I still don't agree that low levels of research for a high level manager is necessarily a bad thing.

Surely the only way you can plan ahead with research is:
You are running two teams in the league and tactically assign dp with both to gain maximum research with the other or
You have an accomplice in the league and you agree between you where each of you will assign dp.

My reasons for comparing the extremes (L20 vs L30) is simply because it is the extremes that will potentially give the biggest problem.

If you want me to compare only three levels, let's do this: Assume a difference between you and the highest team in an area is 30dp and this is what you choose to research:

L21 vs L24
L21 gets 37% research = 12dp in an area they have no control over +21dp to assign to an area of their choice. Total 33dp.
L24 gets 28% research = 9dp in an area they have no control over +24dp to assign to an area of their choice. Total 33dp

L23 vs L26
L23 gets 31% research = 10dp in an area they have no control over +23dp to assign to an area of their choice. Total 33dp
L26 gets 22% research = 7dp in an area they have no control over +26dp to assign to an area of their choice. Total 33dp

Just to round off with L30 team
L30 gets 10% research = 3dp in an area they have no control over +30dp to assign to an area of their choice. Total 33dp

All of the above levels results in 33dp so I don't accept that 10% research will remove any skill in chassis development, in fact if anything the skill in planning your development to align with the season calendar will be more important because you get to actually manage your development instead of hoping that others will put their dp in areas that help you.

And the higher level managers will still have the advantage of drivers that are faster to train (or cheaper if you're buying tokens to accomplish this). Also higher tech should give more boost capacity and more powerful DRS, if it is not it is a problem which needs to be addressed in the same way that the Devs recently addressed the issue where there a T30 driver had virtually no pace advantage over a T20.

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