Jack Basford medal 6098 
CEO & CTO 12 years 316 days ago (edited 12 years 316 days ago)
Particularly now that there is an option to disable the zones within a league there is a need to restrict how good a team can be within a certain tier. For example, currently an Elite team could return to Rookie and keep all staff and drivers (which eventually could be up to level 20). This team would compete directly with teams who have level 2 staff and drivers, which is clearly unfair. So, whilst we are all still quite low level this will be a good time to add some caps for each tier.
Tiers & Levels (my first thoughts)
Rookie: Level 1-5 staff and drivers
Pro: Up to level 10
Elite: Up to level 20
Or this could work well and wouldn't disturb current teams as much:
Rookie: 1-6
Pro: Up to 12
Elite: Up to 20
Other areas
Facilities: A team can keep all of its facilities in any tier.
Research: KERS & DRS would only be permitted for use in Pro and Elite tiers
Income: Objective rewards and sponsorship increase in value as you go up the tiers
This will make the greatest discrepency in the Elite tier, where you would expect it to be tough. The down-side to this is it may also limit gameplay in some regards. For example, once your driver reaches level 5 in Rookie, training would need to be locked for that driver. I don't know if anyone would see that as a problem, but they would either need to promote to continue training the driver or replace them with a better one.
Also, if a team relegates from a higher tier, let's say from Elite to Pro, and their driver is level 15, they will leave the team, wanting to continue racing at the highest level. This is perfectly realistic when you think about it, as Fernando Alonso would never move to GP2 if suddenly Ferrari only participated in GP2!
This has to be implemented to some degree, and it must be done this month (in 1-2 weeks) to ensure minimal disturbance. But I would like to hear everyone's thoughts and suggestions on how to refine the ideas before I implement them. I have pretty much dumped my first thoughts in this post without much refining, and I'm happy to let the community criticise and improve on them.
Marc Royster medal 5000 12 years 316 days ago
I like the idea. Not sure that you need to increase the income as you advance through the tiers though. Money is not really an issue, actually it is more of an issue when your starting out (in rookie tier) and have a lot things to buy. A reverse would work - more money in rookie, less in elite - but that doesn't make much sense when compared to real life, etc. But it would make things more interesting.
I still like my 2-car elite iter idea by the way:
http://igpmanager.com/play/?url=forum-thread/203 ;)
Dan Gurney medal 5000 12 years 316 days ago
Limiting the Manager's level to 5 in Rookie class and 10 to Pro class as well as for the drivers would make sense. But then you should be able to at least opt for DRS when entering a Pro league. And all others (let's say with levels between 6 and 10) would loose their KERS and would have to pay for it again. This would put an additional aspect to long-term strategy.
It is hard enough to start in a league in which three or four teams have already had a complete sesaon and are way ahead at the beginning.
Leveling the leagues a bit better would make sense as well, I guess. The problem now is: When you stay in one league although it would be fun to race against the majority of your opponents from the past (actual) season, you will have the same difficulties as before, i.e. they do already have KERS and can make deals with higher rated drivers and, and, and. So KERS and DRS only for Pro and Elite could make sense. But then, on the other hand, the money in the starting season should be less than now. Let's say 40 or 35 millions as an example.
Then it could go up for the second season, provided the manger has reached the next level. Prize money then would make sense as well (not now, as managers entering a Rookie league with level 3 or 4 have an "unfair" advantage.
On the other hand it is quite time-costly when you try to find a new league, that (maybe) suits you better.
Offering "starter" leagues (by the organizers of this nice game) for pure Rookies where only managers starting from scratch may take part would make sense.
Hugo Luis medal 5000 12 years 316 days ago
In my opinion we could have some kind of level limit when we create a league. It would be like a fixed setup for a racing simulator league. That would help to make the competition equal. Recently, I've seen a Level 5 manager racing in a league where basically all the other managers were on level 2 or 3. Of course he had an easy win, since he had the best car so far, including DRS. Once you have a limit when you create the league, all the 'experienced' managers would be forced to use the parts 'requested' by the league.
Maybe that would be good and fair, or maybe not for others. Anyway, for sure it would be more fun and fair to who wants to begin a iGP career with victory chances in the rookie league, where the manager level wouldn't really matter. That would stop a possible chance of high level managers joining leagues where everyone is a rookie just to make their statistics look good.
Jack Basford medal 6098 CEO & CTO 12 years 316 days ago
"Mike
Offering "starter" leagues (by the organizers of this nice game) for pure Rookies where only managers starting from scratch may take part would make sense.
I like this idea. Though I think they would have to be "outside" of the regular league system, even "pre-rookie", like a kind of sandbox season to get a feel for things. It's unlikely this will happen any time soon, but I have taken note.
Alin Costrasuc medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago
"Jack
Fernando Alonso would never move to GP2 if suddenly Ferrari only participated in GP2!
He better would, after the insanely amounts of money they are paying him !
Alin Costrasuc medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago
Jack, I think money needs tweaking. You make too much money as it is. I don't have any use for my money, I buy everything there is, race with new cars every race and still my balance goes up and up. This would never happen in GPRO for instance, where they are the cheapest bastards on the market ! :)
Dan Gurney medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago
An other thing: I guess it is quite funny that in some leagues there is oinly one single starter in the elite category. Winning every race and doing the best he can for the (his) statistics. That is somekind of ridiculous. Every league should have a minimum number of starters to be eligible for receiving points and – motre important – be valued for the stats. Let's say five as a minimum, otherwise the results are "for testing purpuses".
Jake Goodhall medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago
As with a lot of decisions it's going to be a case onf 'try it and see' as all of the ideas so far make sense.
I like Jack's second suggestion of level limits as otherwise the game would become very unfair - this would involve mainly losing your drivers as the advantage of having good staff will be offset by inexperienced drivers and no KERS or DRS.
The problem with KERS & DRS goes back to a previous post about selling the facilities.
If you have sold the facilities and then drop to rookie you would have to buy it back - if you haven't sold it then it could go 'into abeyance' until you are at the required level again.
I also agree with Alin about the money as I am doing nothing but still making shed loads of money! But I am not sure how this can be sorted as a small change might be disasterous!
Dave Richards medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago
I don't know about limiting the training to be honest, if I'm going to be moving up to a pro league at the end of a season, I want my driver to have been trained all she can be trained when she gets there. Otherwise my driver is just pointlessly ageing and I'd be having to shell out for a new one the second I get to a bigger league. Unless I've misunderstood something?
E: Could you give training credits or something? I mean if I find myself in the bigger leagues but could use the accumulated driver training opportunities once I got there, that would be cool. Maybe only make them available in the lead-up to the first race?
Carlos Santos medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago (edited 12 years 315 days ago)
For me, one of the most rewarding aspects in the game is training your drivers, if I can't train them because of the league I am or even worse if I lose them after a relegation and another team hires him I'll be very very upset.
IMO your suggestion is a little extreme, maybe training can be a bit slower if you have a high level driver in a lower league but losing a driver all of a sudden would be a big blow in my motivation.
If this was already implemented:
Today is the final race of my league and I'm not safe from relegation, returning to the rookie league should be enough punishment (since you'll be making less money and, according to my suggestion, training will be slower) if on top of that my level 8 driver is gone perhaps I wouldn't login everyday...
edi: I don't care if is realistic or not, when Juventus was relegated most top players stayed with the team in second division, never saw a F1 team relegated.
Andrew Hurn medal 5000 12 years 315 days ago (edited 12 years 315 days ago)
I think there are 2 issues here. Regulation of teams permitted to enter the Rookie tier & the promotion/demotion within Pro & Elite
Perhaps entrance to a particular tier should be based on past performance, not the level of the staff. You may have lots of expensive staff in your team but have come up against some players who have a better strategy.
May I suggest that entry to the rookie tier be allowed only to teams that have failed to make it into the promotion zone in the rookie tier. This would prevent successful teams from having a vast performance advantage whilst remaining in the rooker tier.
Secondly, the issue of promotion & demotion between Pro & Elite is what the game is about, isn't it? If you are demoted from Elite this means that you did not have the performance to compete at that level. Surely, such teams now have the opportunity to try different things & employ different staff in order to achieve better results. Does this process need further regulation?
I like the football analogy. Teams demoted from the premiership don't lose their players. The contracts do not become null & void as a result. Also, teams trying to get into the premiership are doing all they can to attract the best players so that they can be promoted. Isn't that what will take place here?
I hope also that teams who win continuously in the elite tier will utlimately become bored & give the rest of us a chance.
Spencer Rose medal 5000 12 years 314 days ago
For those of us who disable promotion while everyone is still in the rookie stage, it wouldn't make sense to have any restrictions in terms of driver/staff levels and facilities. In other threads some people have brought up that these leagues are based on smallish communities where just one grid of 32 of us is sufficient for our needs. It would make sense to leave everything open in this situation.
For leagues with 3 full grids then maybe restrictions could come into play to level the fields (but personally I'm not really a fan of them anyway) but they would just kill single-tier leagues.
Jack Basford medal 6098 CEO & CTO 12 years 314 days ago (edited 12 years 314 days ago)
It's a bigger problem IMO to have guys with level 15-20 drivers racing in Rookie and decimating the opposition. Something will have to be done, and it looks like we can't please everyone, so compromises will have to be made.
EDIT: Scrap the idea I posted, it's too complex to implement.
Gisty McGisterson medal 5000 12 years 314 days ago
How would this affect leagues that have promotion/relegation disabled?
Priit Vork medal 5000 12 years 314 days ago
Jack, I sure would lose the motivation to play if I had worked on my driver so long, and then suddenly he decides that he doesn't want to drive in the Rookie division.
Nuno Miguel medal 5000 12 years 314 days ago
My sugestion goes in a little bit different way.
In the league I'm running racing, there are nowadays 30 guys, among friends and friends of a friend. If we keep the promotion/relegation feature on, in two seasons we would have:
- 10 racers in Elite;
- 12 racers in PRO;
- 8 racers in Rookie.
Since it is a private friendly league, it is most likely that it wont grow very much. But honestly, nowadays the races are awesome with 20+ cars on track.
My question is: why not give the league owner the power to manage how many (not who) will be promoted and how many relegated (or even block promotions and relegations) , in order to keep interest in the races and keep the focus on development, staff training and signing contracts.
For us, for example, it would be much more interesting to allow 16 to get promoted, as the other 14 came to the league half past the season, and so are much more delaied in. However, in the 3rd season probably we could promote 14 of the 16 pros to elite and the other 14 to pro, with great competition between the teams...
It's just a thought, but I believe it would be much more worthy to all leagues...
Obviously the rules must be set before the season start. :)
Jack Basford medal 6098 CEO & CTO 12 years 314 days ago
The league owner can disable promotion and relegation. This was only added recently. He or she just needs to go to the league management page now and untick "Promotion & Relegation" under "Zones".
That is one of the reasons I feel it is important to add restrictions soon, or eventually there will be ultimate teams in the Rookie tier.
Nuno Miguel medal 5000 12 years 314 days ago
Jack, that's why I suggested this. With those limitations, the promotion is required, sooner or later.
But if my activity in the game is restricted, what am I managing, if I cant develop any more or use DRS and KERS?
And other thing, if my league had 13 one car teams, all of us friends of one another, one of us would be kept in Rookie and all the others in PRO. Why not give the owner the power to promote that one single guy, since most likelly there won't be anyone to race with him next season and, after all, he wants more to race with us than with anyone else he doesn't know in real life?
Jack Basford medal 6098 CEO & CTO 12 years 314 days ago (edited 12 years 314 days ago)
Ok, I understand now. The problem then though is tiers would become completely arbitrary and meaningless, which was not the intention at all of our development. At the moment they are pretty much arbitrary, but this is only a temporary situation until we implement more rewards and restrictions for the individual tiers to impact gameplay.
I think my confidence in these kind of changes may be due to having a much clearer picture of where development will be headed in future updates. For example we will be adding a "friendly race" system, where you can race with any team from any league (or tier) for fun. You would simply arrange the time of the race and go racing.
So then you would have the two aspects of gameplay. (1) The leagues where you can grow through the tiers and hierarchy of the game (2) Friendly races, where you can race without pressure against your friends at any time of day, as many times as you like.
I do not agree that making the leagues purely casual will work in the long run, because it would also make the hall of fame and many other stats we plan to develop meaningless. The leagues are there as a ranking system for serious gameplay. It just happens to be that they are the only way to race at the moment. But that won't always be the case, the fun and purely friendly stuff will be layered in over time, in a dinstinctly separate environment.
