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The great promotion debacle...

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medal 5000
10 years 225 days ago
I totally agree with A.Cole. Giving more admin options to the host would ease managing leagues and benefit the gaming experience.
One option could be automatically level the tiers, so if there were 24 drivers in the league, there would be 8 in each tier, and the promotion/relegation wouldnt depend on having the minimum number of drivers required.
I know it's a radical idea, but maybe it's better than the one we have now.
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medal 5000
10 years 225 days ago
I like it!
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medal 5000
10 years 225 days ago
There is this too


http://igpmanager.com/play/?url=forum-thread_2/1692
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medal 5000
10 years 225 days ago
And about this, Andrew/Jack, when can we expect some information/progress?

http://igpmanager.com/play/?url=forum-thread/3145

Really important for taking the game to the next level... we all want that!
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medal 5000
10 years 224 days ago
Another option to think about.
At the moment there's no way to change between a 1 car and a 2 car league.
This would imediatly double the number of race cars in a league.
But for my league, it would be great if i could have the Elite tier as a 2 car league while pro and rookie remained at 1 car. This would give something else to aim at with the elite league, adding to the gameplay. But once a league is open there's no options for changing the car numbers.
But i did aproach this with a genuine concern, have i or the people racing with me in my elite tier got any options? As far as i can see it's race on and hope people stay racing with 4 people. Or re-set and start in the rookie tier again with all my effort going to waiste and the team back to level 1.......
It's not a great choice lets be honest, although some of you might think 'just move leagues' as admin i'd rather not. And i'd like to stay racing with those i've been racing with.
Any ideas?
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medal 5000
10 years 224 days ago
I think it's easier for the League host to be able to control the number of promotions and relegations tbh.
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medal 5000
10 years 224 days ago
"Chaz
I think it's easier for the League host to be able to control the number of promotions and relegations tbh.


If your refering to me, controlling promotion relegation/ moving individual teams between tiers and being able to change 1 tier or the league between 1 and 2 cars are not mutually exclusive.
Changing between 1 and 2 cars for different tiers shouldn't be difficult at all. Even if you have the first promotion to a new tier at 6 people, running that season, or even 2, 3 or 4 seasons at 2 cars before returning to 1 is a good way of keeping racing interesting and cars on the grid. As long as the league host does it with the league and everyone knows just what the goal is there won't be an issue.
I do really like the idea of having the elite league as a 2 car league too, as promotion and relegation start at 16 teams there's few upper leagues that have the maximum of 32 cars.
Having a full elite league of 2 cars and pro as a single car really adds something to the game and gives people something to aim for rather than just another league.
Every league is different, and decisions about how the leagues are run is best made by those in it. The current 'one size fits all' doesn't work.
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medal 5000
10 years 224 days ago
"Andrew

"Chaz
I think it's easier for the League host to be able to control the number of promotions and relegations tbh.


If your refering to me, controlling promotion relegation/ moving individual teams between tiers and being able to change 1 tier or the league between 1 and 2 cars are not mutually exclusive.
Changing between 1 and 2 cars for different tiers shouldn't be difficult at all. Even if you have the first promotion to a new tier at 6 people, running that season, or even 2, 3 or 4 seasons at 2 cars before returning to 1 is a good way of keeping racing interesting and cars on the grid. As long as the league host does it with the league and everyone knows just what the goal is there won't be an issue.
I do really like the idea of having the elite league as a 2 car league too, as promotion and relegation start at 16 teams there's few upper leagues that have the maximum of 32 cars.
Having a full elite league of 2 cars and pro as a single car really adds something to the game and gives people something to aim for rather than just another league.
Every league is different, and decisions about how the leagues are run is best made by those in it. The current 'one size fits all' doesn't work.

Not fond of the 1/2 car system but Controlling the number of teams should be done individually by a League to suit their needs as in my league, (with the current system), it'll take years to fill it up with pro and eventually Elite.
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medal 5000
10 years 224 days ago
Also, I'd like to point out my own situation which is if you look at my league, next season we'll have 9 in Pro which is great but then after that, 2 will get promoted to Elite and will race by themselves which isn't great for leagues like mine which want to progress as people will just get bored.

http://igpmanager.com/play/?url=league-info/2822
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medal 5000
10 years 223 days ago
I really would like options on this from the starff, the current season for my league ends 14 may. Would the be a possiblity to move those left in elite tier back to pro after that?
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medal 5000
10 years 223 days ago
That is more work than you might think Andrew.

The guys are focused on some more pressing issues at this time
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medal 5000
10 years 222 days ago
"Andrew
That is more work than you might think Andrew.



The guys are focused on some more pressing issues at this time


I not asking for you to drop everything and start working on this and have it ready quickly. Long term goal defenatly though.
I'm asking if it would be possible for a member of staff, with a few clicks of a mouse to move a few teams to a different tier for the start of the next season?
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medal 5000
10 years 222 days ago
I will ask
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medal 5000
10 years 222 days ago
"Andrew
I will ask


Thank you ;-)
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medal 5302 CEO & CTO
10 years 222 days ago
Hey guys. The answer will always be "no" to this question. I could link to a bunch of times where I have answered similar requests with the same answer in the past.

Reason: to promote anyone for fun undermines the entire system. It's intended to be a competitive ranking system, designed to balance the teams in each tier. Promote even one person for fun and everyone else that had to earn promotion in a competitive league is getting screwed. The solution we implemented was to provide the ability to disable promotion and relegation, so that if a group of friends want to stay together in a populated tier indefinitely they can do so.

If the reason is that the tier is not populated enough, there are hundreds of alternative leagues available. Nobody is forced to remain in one league, although it does seem to be a common approach to playing iGP.
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medal 5000
10 years 222 days ago
Some very interesting comments above - and in other threads about 'league loyalty'.  I, for one, hadn't really appreciated how loyalty might play such a big part in peoples choices of which leagues they would chose.  I don't think there is anything that needs to be altered about that - just an interesting motivation that might be useful in future developement.
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medal 5000
10 years 222 days ago
"Jack
Hey guys. The answer will always be "no" to this question. I could link to a bunch of times where I have answered similar requests with the same answer in the past.

Reason: to promote anyone for fun undermines the entire system. It's intended to be a competitive ranking system, designed to balance the teams in each tier. Promote even one person for fun and everyone else that had to earn promotion in a competitive league is getting screwed. The solution we implemented was to provide the ability to disable promotion and relegation, so that if a group of friends want to stay together in a populated tier indefinitely they can do so.

If the reason is that the tier is not populated enough, there are hundreds of alternative leagues available. Nobody is forced to remain in one league, although it does seem to be a common approach to playing iGP.

While that is reasonable, one of the problems with current system is that full tier of Rookies teams is not enough for great racing after you split it in three tiers. What you need in that situation as a league admin an option to only enable Pro promotion, effectively running a two-tier league to make sure that races have enough participants. 
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medal 5000
10 years 222 days ago
"Samuli

"Jack
Hey guys. The answer will always be "no" to this question. I could link to a bunch of times where I have answered similar requests with the same answer in the past.

Reason: to promote anyone for fun undermines the entire system. It's intended to be a competitive ranking system, designed to balance the teams in each tier. Promote even one person for fun and everyone else that had to earn promotion in a competitive league is getting screwed. The solution we implemented was to provide the ability to disable promotion and relegation, so that if a group of friends want to stay together in a populated tier indefinitely they can do so.

If the reason is that the tier is not populated enough, there are hundreds of alternative leagues available. Nobody is forced to remain in one league, although it does seem to be a common approach to playing iGP.

While that is reasonable, one of the problems with current system is that full tier of Rookies teams is not enough for great racing after you split it in three tiers. What you need in that situation as a league admin an option to only enable Pro promotion, effectively running a two-tier league to make sure that races have enough participants. 

(Y) 
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medal 5000
10 years 221 days ago
Samuli, The league host has the option to turn promotion off
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medal 5000
10 years 221 days ago
"Jack
Hey guys. The answer will always be "no" to this question. I could link to a bunch of times where I have answered similar requests with the same answer in the past.



Reason: to promote anyone for fun undermines the entire system. It's intended to be a competitive ranking system, designed to balance the teams in each tier. Promote even one person for fun and everyone else that had to earn promotion in a competitive league is getting screwed. The solution we implemented was to provide the ability to disable promotion and relegation, so that if a group of friends want to stay together in a populated tier indefinitely they can do so.



If the reason is that the tier is not populated enough, there are hundreds of alternative leagues available. Nobody is forced to remain in one league, although it does seem to be a common approach to playing iGP.

The system needs an overhaul, we've seen people talk about league loyalty. When 4 teams get promoted and have to run in the new tier by themselves they generally get bored and leave (at least from what i've seen) I kick plenty of people from the league that havn't been playing in a long time while more rookies join, but there's few joining from other leagues and few going to join other leagues.
You talk about the system being underminded, but we're not talking about wholesale changes at the start of each season. We're talking about getting a few more in the upper tiers. Especially when the first promotion to an upper tier happens.
And also the situation we had a while ago a level 10 joined our rookie league while all those in the elite tier are level 9. It wouldn't have been a problem to move him to elite.

This is why that someone who's running the league needs to be able to make these decisions.
Those of us that have made it to Elite in my league can't continue to race in that league as it's just not fun, 6 months at least before more promotion to elite? Only if no one leaves. That is a problem created by the system we have in place. So your options are
-Re-set to rookie. But who wants to give up what they've gained? And your just moving the problem onto someone else who'll get promoted in a few seasons.
- Move to another league. No doubt you've got friendly with the people you've been racing against and don't really consider this much.
- leave the game. This is certainly the option that i've seen people taking, people that really enjoyed this game.

I really don't understand why it's a problem to give people more options. Or why closing elite tier and running 2, adjusting the amount of people that get promted, especially the first promotion into a new tier.
You say you've had a bunch of similar requests, surely that tells you there might be something there that needs addressing?
This game is crying out for help in this area. Desperatly.
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