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medal 5538 CEO & CTO
3 years 132 days ago
In my second post I explained why a limit on staff won't work. E.g. If we limit everyone to 5 staff, they'll make 10 accounts instead. They still get 50+ chief designers. We will likely add some kind of cap in addition to the update we've done, to double down on squashing such activity, but not as the whole solution, because it isn't one.

Some have also said without free agents they could do tricks on the transfer market, but technically this is much more complicated and easier for us to confront. It will require engaging in auctions and they'd have to make so many accounts and have more sophisticated code. It will suppress such activity massively.

We will also likely add email validation or some other layer of security to increase the difficulty in creating multiple accounts.

Anyway, now we will look at improving the transfers market.
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medal 5000
3 years 132 days ago
Jeck believe me I respect you but when you say these things I really think you don't know what you're talking about. the game is all about having multiple accounts. to be able to play more but there are also many administrators forced to create them to activate promotions or to make their league stand out in the filters. if those who use this strategy (who does it did not understand that it is useless) can also create more accounts but must bring them to a high level. you are putting a patch that is worse than the hole believe me.
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medal 5538 CEO & CTO
3 years 132 days ago
Dome
the game is all about having multiple accounts. to be able to play more but there are also many administrators forced to create them to activate promotions or to make their league stand out in the filters.

Clearly, that's not our intention or something we want you to have to do to maintain a league. We are not going to ignore such things, we will work directly on tackling them and any concerns that arise out of this update with the following updates. E.g. I am going to put forward quite a radical proposal soon about revising the entire league structure (don't worry, the only change for Pro and Elite will be that you get league rules, at last, a long requested feature), but it will address all these concerns and more. Stay tuned for that post.

There are also some quick and effective ways we can improve the transfers market, such that all this nonsense of typing in IDs, launching browser scripts and tabs can become a thing of the past. Gameplay should go through the game, not a series of scripts and tabs in a web browser that isn't even available to most people playing the game (over 80% play inside an app, not on desktop).

As I've said since the launch of 3D, we wanted to do stability patches first (we're now wrapping up that work), then move on to gameplay. Gameplay is right in my sights now and you're going to see improvements across the board.
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medal 5104
3 years 132 days ago

The scripts are instantly rendered obsolete by this update.



Can't the guys that use scripts just set them up to do something else? 
i.e. Look for the best possible drivers/staff on the transfer market and just buy them from there?

Yes, it's more expensive in terms of coins, but for old accounts money and coins aren't really an issue.
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medal 5310
3 years 132 days ago

Dome
Jeck believe me I respect you but when you say these things I really think you don't know what you're talking about. the game is all about having multiple accounts. to be able to play more but there are also many administrators forced to create them to activate promotions or to make their league stand out in the filters. if those who use this strategy (who does it did not understand that it is useless) can also create more accounts but must bring them to a high level. you are putting a patch that is worse than the hole believe me.


Jack, I’m with Dome on this one. I also have a multitude of accounts, not for hoarding drivers or staff, for testing, racing in different leagues and when I was a host (to launch rookie tier into league search filter and to keep promotion up in pro)


Although I’m always in favour of closing loopholes, countering maleficent players, and improving how leagues work, e-mail validation imho would also hit me and other benevolent players 
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medal 5104
3 years 132 days ago
Yes and no.
Email validation is no longer an issue for creating accounts. If you don't enforce specific email providers, there are quite a few free temporary mail solutions online.
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medal 5000
3 years 132 days ago
Currently over my 3 accounts I now have 15 academy drivers that now have no home to go to. This is a seriously bad update by devs. Why should i risk putting my academy driver on the transfer market auction when i could have offered it to a lower level manager in my league. I have never 'stored' CD's as there is no need, never had a problem finding them in the transfer market. But academy drivers are nursed for a reason and you guys have just destroyed the whole purpose of creating them.
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medal 5000 Super Mod
3 years 132 days ago
I also have multiple accounts for much the same reason as Antonio.

If email validation were to be introduced BUT additionally the Devs were to change things so that a single account could maybe have ten teams assigned to it would this work? It would overcome some of the issues mentioned by Antonio and a spin off advantage is that for league hosts it would be much easier to identify managers who enter multiple teams into a league.

I don't know how easy this would be to introduce and the "ten teams" is just a random number I plucked from the air.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the recent changes, yes they might cause me a few problems but if the end result is to prevent exploitation and provide a better and fairer game for the entire community I think it's a positive move.
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medal 5000
3 years 132 days ago

Kevin
I also have multiple accounts for much the same reason as Antonio.

If email validation were to be introduced BUT additionally the Devs were to change things so that a single account could maybe have ten teams assigned to it would this work? It would overcome some of the issues mentioned by Antonio and a spin off advantage is that for league hosts it would be much easier to identify managers who enter multiple teams into a league.

I don't know how easy this would be to introduce and the "ten teams" is just a random number I plucked from the air.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the recent changes, yes they might cause me a few problems but if the end result is to prevent exploitation and provide a better and fairer game for the entire community I think it's a positive move.



Kevin you know very well how the PGI community works. many play with the same account, many replace friends who cannot follow a race, I personally have access to many expert accounts but also not where I enter to make them understand where they are wrong. many experienced managers have less experienced managers attend their races to show them how to best use the thrusts. for example, tonight we Italians are playing in the "world" championship and I personally entered 4/5 accounts to exchange the CD. this is one of the best things about IGP. if it is a crime, sentence me to life imprisonment but by changing the method of entry into the account how can you do all this? sorry my english
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medal 5000
3 years 132 days ago (Last edited by Mark Spencer 3 years 132 days ago)
This initial step to close off the availability of 'out of contract', in my opinion, is needed (to an extent*) in order to have a more balanced game for all players, and not just the hardcore 10%.

This is especially true in the non existent transfer market for 'competitive' Chief Designers (CDs) at the Level 19 and 20 range, whereby a small but dedicated amount of players would be buying all the 'competitive' CDs, before they were able to reach the main marketplace, rendering the transfer market as useless.

This practice was executed most effectively by players who had access to PCs, as it involved manually typing in custom staff URLs onto a web browser, before the URLs were even created by the iGP Manager staff generator, and then using the 'buy direct' option to select the staff(s) they wanted.

Whilst this practice was not illegal in the rules, it becomes a sizeable game problem for other players, when certain players decide to purchase and hold sizeable storages of 'competitive' CDs for their disproportionate amount of accounts. We are talking over 100 accounts each, with 'competitive' CDs in each account (with some accounts holding 10-20 CDs each)

There are no rules yet on the amount of accounts one player can hold, but does one player really need over 100 accounts? Or even over 30 or 50 accounts? All in different aliases and nationalities. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think one player needs that amount of accounts in one game.

As for the steps forward, and the possible solutions, the availability of 'competitive' CDs will have to be addressed thoroughly and decisively, as this is the source and cause of the above issue.

iGP Manager needs to make these 'competitive' CDs more easily available to all managers in the game, and not just available to the hardcore 10%, who can sit and monitor the transfer market, 12+ hrs/day.

A solution could be to make 'competitive' CDs directly buyable only with small cash transaction, in the shop. This may greatly increase the supply of available 'competitive' CDs for the majority average player, with the additional benefit of making these players who do not have 12+ hrs free each day, the opportunity to own a 'competitive' CD, greatly improving their race results, and in turn more likely to keep them in the game. And of course, this can generate some income for iGP Manager, which like it or not, is needed to keep the servers running, and various staff paid.

Just a brief example of this:

A 'competitive' CD, with the same level or +1 level to the manager:


  • Age 55: £1.99

  • Age 45: £2.99

  • Age 35: £4.99


2 'competitive' CDs pack: -10% discount
3 'competitive' CDs pack: -20% discount

*Lastly I say to an extent, as I believe a total closure of this pre-market direct buy option is actually disadvantageous in scenarios:

For Drivers:
Being transferred to other accounts, there is already a high penalty in terms of increases race salary. The benefit of gifting Talent 20 talent drivers to newer managers is also negated by this total closure.

For Technical Directors and Doctors:
There is little to no benefit of closing this 'outside direct buy option' These staff members do not play such a large role in the race performance.

For Chief Designers:
This does need to be closed to a certain extent, for all the above reasons stated above. One option though, is to allow only CDs who have been purchased directly with a small cash transaction, to move freely (ie. to side accounts) After all, that manager did make a monetary investment, and they should able to carry that investment over, should they wish to create a secondary account.
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medal 5538 CEO & CTO
3 years 132 days ago (Last edited by Jack Basford 3 years 132 days ago)
I've been researching and working out a new transfers system today that will ensure access to high quality CDs and drivers every day. I've already outlined it to a group of high level players and they were happy with the ideas too. I estimate it'll take a few weeks to implement. I'll post the proposal later on so the community can see it too.

I think it tackles almost every complaint about the current transfers system, and the problems of almost all possible scripts someone could use, even within an auction. It doesn't involve any new IAPs or anything like that either, it will probably save you tokens in the transfer market.

Edit: in response to the post below, it'll also include a new way to recruit staff like the YDA for drivers. I've tried to address as many requests like that as possible within the new design. Keep an eye out for the thread late tonight.
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medal 5000
3 years 132 days ago (Last edited by Skid Solo 3 years 132 days ago)
Why can’t you just add another option to HQ and allow managers to purchase CDs and TDS (if required) in the same way as novice drivers.  An extra element in training could allow you to improve their  level.  Experience could be gained via the staff member being set as active in a team on race basis as it is with drivers (although experience seems to have little impact in the game).

Then they would be little need for all the selling on to new players as happens now.  You all see this as helping newcomers, but I consider it a mild form of cheating (or at very least not in the spirit of fair competition, regardless of whether you agree or not, it is how I see it).  You are giving these players an unfair advantage against others of a similar level of experience and level.  Even if you are just doing it with players in your leagues, what happens when they move to another league?   They have gained something unfairly and it creates imbalances in the game economy.
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medal 5000
3 years 132 days ago (Last edited by Sir Guava 3 years 132 days ago)
Also, thanks to those of you who recommended I take a look at Top Eleven in the other threads. Anyone familiar with it will have seen the inspiration their auction system provided. It gave me some valuable insights which I then built on and incorporated in to the context of iGP.

Just to clarify (as it might've been my mistake on not putting it together properly or due to a typo): I didn't want to push Top Eleven's transfers system into iGP (I'm actually indifferent to it), just intended to show how not to do peer-to-peer negotiations and keep the game competitive and not P2W. But If you (and the rest of the community) liked their system, I'm happy by being the catalyst of that, in some sort of way ?


Several of the accounts using these scripts have accumulated 50+ Chief Designers with the best possible attributes, as an example, totally unbalancing the game for everyone else. The scripts are instantly rendered obsolete by this update. We will decide separately what to do about those accounts, but that was all we wanted to achieve today.
(...)
As was mentioned in the changelog, there will be work done on the transfers list to improve the availability of the sorts of drivers and staff that people were looking for, but within the proper structure of how the game is supposed to be played.
(...)
Thanks to those who put constructive feedback, we'll take all of that in to the subsequent updates (which will come within days). The situation at this exact point in time is only a temporary one. We want to get everyone playing the game properly, so first we wanted to shut down all the "silly" ways of playing it that involve scripts, loopholes, opening hundreds of browser tabs, typing in random URLs, or exploits (notice the trend in recent patches).

Just to clarify (again): I'm not disappointed in taking down those loopholes... but with the way you did it. The new Hall of Fame isn't the greatest thing in the word, but it was ready when the previous one was dethroned and it keeps players engaged in a daily basis. Taking down "Sell now" out of the blue without giving us any solution only caused some frustration about a "fix" we didn't even knew we needed ?‍♂️


The scarier prospect, apparently, is that these drivers and staff should start appearing on the transfer market. Heaven forbid, we see good drivers and staff on the transfer market. Yet we've been told forever that the reason exploits were necessary is that no good drivers and staff appear there, and now you're concerned that they will be there... I can't be the only one seeing the contradiction.

Tbf I don't really mind the strength the newly generated CD comes with. It's worth, most of the time, 59 or 109 tokens to buy one that can stay 500 races in your team by just fixing their Strength/Weakness. What really matters is how many of the 5* (5 stars) exist on the market for level 16-20 teams. This includes TD and also DR (which is a shame the 5* ones not working 100% of their capabilities). That's because the game is also about team management, which includes tokens savings and their future allocation.


In my second post I explained why a limit on staff won't work. E.g. If we limit everyone to 5 staff, they'll make 10 accounts instead. They still get 50+ chief designers. We will likely add some kind of cap in addition to the update we've done, to double down on squashing such activity, but not as the whole solution, because it isn't one.
(...)
Several of the accounts using these scripts have accumulated 50+ Chief Designers with the best possible attributes, as an example, totally unbalancing the game for everyone else. The scripts are instantly rendered obsolete by this update. We will decide separately what to do about those accounts, but that was all we wanted to achieve today.

It's not about the full solution, but rather slowing the managers doing such things down. It takes a lot of time to level up a brand new account to level 19 where it causes the most damage, so if they need to create new accounts to keep their staff it's won't be possible and those staffs will be sent to the market again. 5 of each staff sounds good enough for me. Specially if don't have a punishment in mind yet ?


Giovanni Caruana
At least you should make us able to filter all the transfers by stars and not show only 30 random drivers or staff.


This is the kind of discussion we've been having about how to improve the system. We'll look in to it.

If the game does follow some of Top Eleven's transfers system features it might need some sortings to save time while looking them all up in a 4min bid system. And, as a player of the said game, what usually happens is: we open the "Transfers" tab when it has less time than the maximum available to make decisions on the current market. Considering how different the games are, it will come in handy. For example:
Sort Staff - "Function | Level | Stars | Age | Experience" and;
Sort Drivers - "Talent | Height | Overall driving | Overall mental | Stamina | Experience | Age".

And may I suggest a "sort by star" in a "given level"?  {It might not be too effective depending on how you guys implement the new Office staff recruitment, but I just wanted to say it as it can be added to iGP as a "shortlist filter"}
For example, let's say I want to help someone in my league to look up for a level 17, 5* CD. In the current system me, as a level 20, can only see 4* for all of them in my shortlist so it's all about trial and error. As it may sound too complicated for newcomers, it can be added as a "Advanced search" below the usual sortings or something like that because, in Top Eleven, a given star rating applies for all levels... and it doesn't work like that in iGP ?


We will also likely add email validation or some other layer of security to increase the difficulty in creating multiple accounts.

Last, but not least: I'm not a fan of that, but completely understand the need for it... just don't do that now! A blow at a time ?


Anyway, keep the results of your good work coming... but please, don't make big decisions out of the blue like this again ?
Have a nice day! ??
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medal 5000
3 years 131 days ago
at this point you can also delete the Marketplace from the forum
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medal 5891
3 years 118 days ago (Last edited by Simone Villa 3 years 118 days ago)
A limit in staff is now active. I think it is good 

Old selected staff( and drivers) free are still available at 3token. I think it is good

New selected staff(and driver) free cannot be buyed except if you have already hired  them in the past: this is not good! This is a big advantage for players that hired 50 or more staff in the past. I think that this solution is opposite to the first reason for which the staff was limited.
So now there will be a lot of staff without contract that will remain  without contract for long time...why??? 
I think it is better turn on previous  solution of a fixed  cost: maybe you can increase number of tokens (from 3 to 9 for example)



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