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Lee Clark
8 years 35 days ago

I think that is why the old spying system won't work. No team will start 100% at the start of the season. I do agree that the spying needs to be toned down. A quick fix is to tone it down now until the attributes are not so reliant on 4(now 5) values.

In the MJL Elite I am a lowly level 13 team racing against higher rated teams (18?). I don't expect to be able to finish 3/4 like I did yesterday. I do expect to be able to spy, use good management, setup, and employ the best staff I can in order to improve over the season to beat level 13-16 teams that don't attend, manage etc.

My worry is that quick fixes are being applied without a thought for the long term. Once a fix is seen to make things worse, rather than rolling back or rethinking the quick fix a new quick fix is added.

TBH, I am happy about the recent fuel fix and some of the other enhancements but I think a 7 day warning should be given. People may have purchased staff based on the current game (spending gold and $) and a quick fix hurts them without them being able to forward plan.

Sam Leo
8 years 35 days ago

First of all as Jack said this update was to lower the gaps between teams (speed attributes). As for the fuel impact cannot say for sure and we all must invest and test it to see how will work. So we need to give some feedback. More reports more data that will help for ideal settings. Not all have the time but the ones who can please do so.

Spy system is something else. Hard to have the best car or second best car and fighting to be within top 10 but i think Racing gets better and better. Some are lucky at the moment of updates some are not depend where they did invest on car design and staff but i think season by season we getting there.

Thanks the IGP team for hard work Balancing the game together with many other huge problems (Like leagues could not race for couple of days)

CEO & CTO
8 years 35 days ago

I have what I think is a very good system drawn up to ensure a fair balance, based on the all the feedback from all sides. I will finalise it, produce some previews tonight and probably post it tomorrow for everyone to give their opinions on.

Regarding the claims that we're just applying quick fixes without much forethought, that's not true at all. It's being given a lot of thought, but we are making sure that progress comes as quickly as it can in all areas right now. This is one reason we postponed the mobile launch, so we can focus on making the game as good as it can be for a few months. Considering we're making updates virtually every week at this point, it won't take much longer to have something just as refined as the old game, which had 5 years of balancing work put in to it. I think that is often forgotten when comparing the two.

Jack Brabham
8 years 35 days ago

It would be nice to get some advance notice of the changes before they come into effect.

CEO & CTO
8 years 35 days ago (edited 8 years 35 days ago)

Jack

It would be nice to get some advance notice of the changes before they come into effect.

Assuming you're referring to my post, that's what I mean, I will post it for everyone to review soon.

The simulation changes on the other hand work a bit differently. Ricky works part-time, without a schedule, making it unclear when simulator updates are coming, and even in what order sometimes. So, when there is urgent demand for something to be implemented and there is a chance to do it, I prefer to sign off on that and get it in to the game rather than hang about, so we can focus on the next thing. But would you rather in these kinds of scenarios we hold off on implementing changes sometimes just to give advance notice? That's a possibility, the downside to that is keeping people in a status quo that maybe they don't enjoy for longer.

EDIT: Of course, my hope is that going in to 2017 and releasing the mobile apps we'll be able to grow the operation and bring everyone onboard full-time and a more structured process for releases will naturally follow from that.

Jason John
8 years 35 days ago

thanks jack for all your hard work appreciate how hard you're working hard on making this version good as the old one.

I'm still puzzled to how the new version was made live when it is far from finished even after a month.

for me it lost its appeal now and i will be missing most live racing till hopefully it gets back to good fun fair racing again.

Jason John
8 years 35 days ago

Jack

Jack

It would be nice to get some advance notice of the changes before they come into effect.

Assuming you're referring to my post, that's what I mean, I will post it for everyone to review soon.

The simulation changes on the other hand work a bit differently. Ricky works part-time, without a schedule, making it unclear when simulator updates are coming, and even in what order sometimes. So, when there is urgent demand for something to be implemented and there is a chance to do it, I prefer to sign off on that and get it in to the game rather than hang about, so we can focus on the next thing. But would you rather in these kinds of scenarios we hold off on implementing changes sometimes just to give advance notice? That's a possibility, the downside to that is keeping people in a status quo that maybe they don't enjoy for longer.

EDIT: Of course, my hope is that going in to 2017 and releasing the mobile apps we'll be able to grow the operation and bring everyone onboard full-time and a more structured process for releases will naturally follow from that.

Maybe an in game mail for game changes as most ppl either don't look on forums or occasionally look might miss these changes

Jason Prudhoe
8 years 35 days ago

Jonathan

The races I've seen today had no dramatic change from the race before and most leagues looked closer. It looked like a good change and that was what people were saying when I was there at least.

Some get unlucky in the process but I think it's good to see improvements being made often. It's not always easy to foresee everything and balancing of design points for example fixed one problem but introduced a new one that nobody saw until two weeks later.

Everyone was pressuring the devs to do something, fast, and they did. I don't think it helps when people threaten the devs all the time saying if this isn't fixed right now I'm leaving... It forces them to rollout updates faster and with less testing of that's the kind of pressure they are working under, if you see what I mean. Then we expect them to see every outcome in 2 days when thousands of people can't see it in 2 weeks.

I agree that every update should be well tested but overall I think things are moving in a good direction and feel confident the balancing is close to being sorted. I know not everyone agrees here but a lot of people who don't come to the forum are happy. Just my 2 cents.

i just think the devs should of been a bit more careful on what choices they make. pandering to a few players isn't the right choice really and even if there are plans in place, it's finding the right one in a correct place to test it to confirm it works first and replicating the results to confirm it, testing all the various options could even lead to unexpected ideas leading to another design that was up to this point not considered.

i don't want to see devs forced into something either, i just think that a few of the ideas are a sort of knee-jerk reactions rather than ones given some thought. i do understand the need to impress to keep the player base, but some of those choices should be made with a bit of care and something everyone can be happy with rather than needing to make another change.

Paul Holian
8 years 35 days ago

Lee

I think that is why the old spying system won't work. No team will start 100% at the start of the season. I do agree that the spying needs to be toned down. A quick fix is to tone it down now until the attributes are not so reliant on 4(now 5) values.

In the MJL Elite I am a lowly level 13 team racing against higher rated teams (18?). I don't expect to be able to finish 3/4 like I did yesterday. I do expect to be able to spy, use good management, setup, and employ the best staff I can in order to improve over the season to beat level 13-16 teams that don't attend, manage etc.

My worry is that quick fixes are being applied without a thought for the long term. Once a fix is seen to make things worse, rather than rolling back or rethinking the quick fix a new quick fix is added.

TBH, I am happy about the recent fuel fix and some of the other enhancements but I think a 7 day warning should be given. People may have purchased staff based on the current game (spending gold and $) and a quick fix hurts them without them being able to forward plan.

Well im in the champions league. I also am a lowly level 13 manager racing against many lvl 16,17,18,19 managers. Last season I felt my car started at too low a lvl but then the bonus points had me competing within 5 races, I eventually won the championship but in truth it could have been me or at least 3 others who won it because the last 7-8 races were very close and competitive!!

I have started this season with most of my stats between 40-50 and two stats are below 20. This is far better than last season but i put this down to me getting better staff, I have won the first two races and have not got any design points a it says I have ""one"of the best cars". This seems fair, I cant complain.

Last season when I was winning I was still getting bonus points coz there was stronger cars right up untill al the stats got maxed on the last race, If I am currently one on the best cars at ratings I mentioned above then thats good it means noone has a maxed car and by management anyone can be competitve in the league soon.

Good work guys

Hannu Vallin
8 years 35 days ago

If this new thing affects speed because of tyre economy stats, then it doesn't really seem that good of a change. As a good manager hasn't really put many points in there to make the car fast, and now it's changed to actually be a meaningful stat mid-season you kind of punish the people who have figured out how the system works and rewarding people who have just randomly put points into categories. Also, if you have one of the best cars, you don't get that many points to fix the problem even if you're putting all the points to tyres/whatever.

Leslie Oldham
8 years 35 days ago

What can I say? I want both to rant and encourage. I think I'll rant first.

I have no sympathy for those who want the old system back or any part of it. I was an energetic critic of certain aspects of the old IGP and most of my concerns about the old system have been addressed by the current version. The concerns I had about the old IGP were shared by many and many players quit the old game because of those things.

This version has more potential for subtlety and depth than the old system. It hasn't realized it yet but that potential is clearly there. I do wish that the full game had been introduced for testing in BETA. But that is water under the bridge. We now have the opportunity to partner with Jack and team to make this a first class management game. Lets do THAT!

This game has always been plagued by players that do not want to participate in live races because they are not scoring points. I have been in that camp. But I learned recently that I was wrong to do that and I am ashamed of that childish attitude. It is embarrassing to acknowledge such a thing at my age. I did find that I can race at the back and still have fun with the game. I can race for 13th place against a player that is not there and still try to devise a way to gain one more position.

Jack has to try to make a game that will appeal to new players that will be coming when the game goes mobile AND satisfy the experienced players that have stuck with him for many years. That ain't no easy thing!

As I have pointed out from my account in the MJL league he is very close to succeeding. Jack has always been very patient and very willing to accept criticism and make corrections. He may occasionally miss a little but then corrections come that restore fair game-play. By continuing to offer reasonable suggestions we can help him.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
8 years 35 days ago

Jack and team, well done, I'm sure you're doing your very best and I suppose it must be disheartening for people to come on here to rubbish your game so I apologise for previous posts, I am just getting very frustrated.

So....
When all of the teams begin the season with roughly the same DP the spying probably works okay. The problems arise when for whatever reason one or two teams start from an extremely low design. If the top team is approx. 400 dp and some teams only have 60-80 the espionage points the weak teams receive are too many and swing the balance too quickly.

There are a number of ways that Managers can intentionally arrange for their cars to either begin the season or join a league with very low total design. It is not realistic for such a team to be able to overhaul established teams with well designed cars within two races.

So would it make sense to keep the spying as it is with the same percentage gain on the difference (based on star rating of TD) BUT... to overcome the teams that use very low design as a strategy, you limit the number of espionage dp that can be awarded to a maximum of ????? To be decided

In this way, those cars that have tried their best to develop well designed cars but have just fallen short (maybe because they have a lower level) will still get bonus points and will close the gap on top teams over the course of four or five races and those who have intentionally started the season with a very poor car will possibly never catch up within the season thus giving them an incentive to better develop their cars for the following season.

Paul Holian, if you have the strongest car you may well think everything is good for the first couple of races but if you have teams in your league with less than 100 dp I gurantee within the next couple of races you will understand what some of us have been experiencing.

Thanks
Kev

Jay Brock
8 years 35 days ago

It sounds like if it took an entire season to catch up instead of just a few races it'd be fine. It's just that as it is people are encouraged to jump to new leagues every year due to the system. So having the system allow newer entries to catch up over the course of a season seems like a fair way to ensure that backmarkers can eventually catch up, without allowing it to be an exploit to customize your car.

For example, I joined a new league and got 100 design points just now. That beyond absurd for a single race.

Yunus Unia Blunion
8 years 35 days ago

Leslie

What can I say? I want both to rant and encourage. I think I'll rant first.

I have no sympathy for those who want the old system back or any part of it. I was an energetic critic of certain aspects of the old IGP and most of my concerns about the old system have been addressed by the current version. The concerns I had about the old IGP were shared by many and many players quit the old game because of those things.

This version has more potential for subtlety and depth than the old system. It hasn't realized it yet but that potential is clearly there. I do wish that the full game had been introduced for testing in BETA. But that is water under the bridge. We now have the opportunity to partner with Jack and team to make this a first class management game. Lets do THAT!

This game has always been plagued by players that do not want to participate in live races because they are not scoring points. I have been in that camp. But I learned recently that I was wrong to do that and I am ashamed of that childish attitude. It is embarrassing to acknowledge such a thing at my age. I did find that I can race at the back and still have fun with the game. I can race for 13th place against a player that is not there and still try to devise a way to gain one more position.

Jack has to try to make a game that will appeal to new players that will be coming when the game goes mobile AND satisfy the experienced players that have stuck with him for many years. That ain't no easy thing!

As I have pointed out from my account in the MJL league he is very close to succeeding. Jack has always been very patient and very willing to accept criticism and make corrections. He may occasionally miss a little but then corrections come that restore fair game-play. By continuing to offer reasonable suggestions we can help him.

Hot fire, +1, fire.emoji

James Greer
8 years 35 days ago

New changes seem to have upset the car compatibility stars a little

My car last season was higher than this one and it had 4 & a half stars in Germany

Paul Holian
8 years 35 days ago

Kevin

Jack and team, well done, I'm sure you're doing your very best and I suppose it must be disheartening for people to come on here to rubbish your game so I apologise for previous posts, I am just getting very frustrated.

So....
When all of the teams begin the season with roughly the same DP the spying probably works okay. The problems arise when for whatever reason one or two teams start from an extremely low design. If the top team is approx. 400 dp and some teams only have 60-80 the espionage points the weak teams receive are too many and swing the balance too quickly.

There are a number of ways that Managers can intentionally arrange for their cars to either begin the season or join a league with very low total design. It is not realistic for such a team to be able to overhaul established teams with well designed cars within two races.

So would it make sense to keep the spying as it is with the same percentage gain on the difference (based on star rating of TD) BUT... to overcome the teams that use very low design as a strategy, you limit the number of espionage dp that can be awarded to a maximum of ????? To be decided

In this way, those cars that have tried their best to develop well designed cars but have just fallen short (maybe because they have a lower level) will still get bonus points and will close the gap on top teams over the course of four or five races and those who have intentionally started the season with a very poor car will possibly never catch up within the season thus giving them an incentive to better develop their cars for the following season.

Paul Holian, if you have the strongest car you may well think everything is good for the first couple of races but if you have teams in your league with less than 100 dp I gurantee within the next couple of races you will understand what some of us have been experiencing.

Thanks
Kev

Last season I started with one of the worst cars. about 80-120 dp. First few races I was outside the top 20 then boom because of all the design points I was lapping EVERYONE for a few races then the end of the season was close and fun when everyone was even.

This season i have best car but I can tell its not much better than others because the races are very close and fun.

My point is, I understand what the problem is and how fustrating it is, last season I was that less than 100dp team and the points I recieved after each race was crazy. I said good work, well done to the guys in an above post becuse this season is far more even at the start than last season.

Jack Brabham
8 years 34 days ago

My two bob's worth: I think the game is great and all changes are positive and for the greater good of the community. I personally think it would be best to introduce changes at the end/beginning of a season. Make the announcement at the beginning of the season for changes to happen in the following season. Give people time to prepare in case changes make impact to long term strategies. Having said that, I understand that some leagues operate on a different timetable. So I don't know how my suggestion would work, if at all. If it can't work, then I would leave it to your judgement that if any changes impact staff/driver selections or spending strategies, you assess a meaningful timeframe for their implementation. Some things can be brought in immediately and still be fair, some changes might be fairer if introduced with some notice. If the intent of the game is to get the performance closer, then management strategies is where the competitive advantage will be seen. So you'd need to be sensitive to that. Keep up the great work!

CEO & CTO
8 years 34 days ago

Here's the first stage to improving the situation in my opinion, please move the discussion to this thread so we can refine it together: http://igpmanager.com/?url=forum-thread/6191.

Joey McLane
8 years 34 days ago

@Ricky & Dan : Gaps were effectively halved helping a little slower cars, about fuel it's too early to judge but it looks promising.

Yunus Unia Blunion
8 years 34 days ago

Joey

@Ricky & Dan : Gaps were effectively halved helping a little slower cars, about fuel it's too early to judge but it looks promising.

I really liked the effectiveness of fuel economy.

My A team, this account with 2 in fuel eco, cost my car to use one litre more per lap versus my B team whose car is 100 in fuel eco.

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