Yet another one bites the dust.

It's ok Rob just put that post up and i will make sure that the leaderboard will actually see it =)
It's fine ;)

i get fed up reading some of these suggestion posts, not because the suggestions are pointless or wrong but because the vast majority of them turn into sub v unsub and often the price is mentioned, i dont pay as i dont think its worth it, £3 or something for 1 race a day or around 30 hours a month where as i can pay £6 a month and play MMO games 24/7 with no restrictions i know which is more value for money

Well that's your opinion but if the game has subs it's sure that are other people that actually think it's worthy right? and also know that their are not only paying to have 2d and stuff like that but to support a great work that is this game you see?

Spot on.

I pay my subs because I want to pay towards the devlopment, We have 3 members who are on the F2P side in the Elites and I make them ever bit apart of this game as I can.

I put from the 1st post that the people coming back at me will be the subscribed members and thats exactly who seem to be against me, but the fact is, I pay mine every week to come and chat with others who play this free or not.... If they are nice people, then thats what keeps me here and continuing paying.

So hearing the F2P players have issue after issue and leave the game over it is not nice. esp when you race with them 3 times a week and for the 3 season.

So my rants are to give more value for money to the subscribers and let the F2P members pay into it when they can afford to and get some nice goodies as incentive. but still want to hang around if they can't.

Watching live timings and not being able to do a thing when something happens is annoying and people won't come back week after week if they get these issues.

Kay Wills is a F2P player and is a top 10 finisher, yet 3 times last season, a driver has gone passed the pits and ran out. On one occation it was 3 corners from the pits. I asked if they changed from backing off to pushing and they swore to me that they didn't and have got to the point that they feel they need to back off for the in lap.

Still doesn't change the fact that most people (not everyone, but most) only pay for 2D because it's an advantage & more enjoyable than staring at a timing board. I guarantee if someone put a poll up, 80% of paying users will say this is why they subscribe.

2D is the only reason I subscribe. If you give 2D out free, myself and many other users will cancel their subscriptions, and I doubt iGP could afford to take that risk. There would have to be substantial benefits for paying members if 2D was free, and I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would make paying seem appealing. I sure as hell wouldn't second guess cancelling my subscription if 2D was free.

In fact I know many people I have spoke to over time are only paying because the game isn't as fun without 2D, not because 2D is an advantage. I'm kind of in that category aswell. So those types of users would stop paying if 2D was free aswell.

I understand the point you are trying to make Rob, but I just don't think it is practical in the long run for iGP & I honestly can't ever see it happening. They would just lose too much money if 2D was free because people would just stop paying - Anyone here is fooling themselves if they think otherwise. Sure you'd get the numbers up, but what good is there in boosting the numbers if you're gaining no extra income to support the game? Your idea sounds good in a perfect world, but lets face it, people are not going to keep paying if 2D is free.

It sounds to me like the timing board just needs a ton of work to sort out the bugs, and nothing more.

well the most important thing i would like to see is more information to the live viewer at the very least, right now its quite bad. that probably explains a great deal to this idea of the 2d viewer.

i dont think there is any need for this to turn into a slagging match between paid and non-paid members, its clear that the live viewer itself needs to have alot more updates on live information, considering this game is ovbiously built on freedom of strategy. i suspect that this is the problem and the whole reason for this thread.

yea there a fair few bugs on the live timing at the moment, last night we had a wet race and dispite me pressing wet(full) and pitting it put on hard tyres which unfortunatly cost me a fair few points, i have posted in the bugs section hopefully it will be sorted soon,  although id like 2d for free i do agree with most on this thread that its just not viable, as others have suggested maybe when the dots get replaced with 3d models you could give the basic 2d viewer for free, as i suggested on my post on page 1(i think) there should be more benifits to being a sub nothing to unfair or to make subs so good an non sub couldnt beat them with a good strat.

But then you're still left with the fact that less people will want to pay, and I imagine most people would cancel their subs.

I think this is a good game badly let down by the way it is set up. Besides all the bugs which are needing to be ironed out, I think it puts people off because there is not enough people participating in each league. My main gripe is that there are many leagues with less than 5/6 people competing, thus no competion. My last season I was in rookie and there were quite a few playing, but still not enough. Now I have been promoted to pro there is only 4 so far. This is not good enough. There are far too many leagues being created and nobody is in them. A better way would be to have a pyramid sytem by region area.
Another problem is there is no reset for rookie level. You could just stay in rookie and build up a very good team over several seasons by hanging back, before deciding to promote. If rookie level was reset to the start level each new season, every rookie would then be starting on an equal level car etc. If someone comes in as it is now, they end up getting beaten very easyand so a lot decide to give up at the first hurdle.
I love the race interaction and giving drivers orders during the race. This is something you can't do in GPRO, but they have thousands of players online at any time against just a few hundred here. So let have some new ideas to attract people.

Although I'm a defender of Rob, I don't personally believe that the 2D viewer should be made available to non-paying members. It is entirely obvious that most people who subscribe do so either because they find watching timing screens too boring or they want the in-race benefits that come from the data visible within the 2D viewer.

I would simply say to the developers that it is fundamentally unfair to your free players to pit them against people who get much better data during a race. Either split them into different leagues, so that paying members do not race against the free members, or allow everyone access to the same in-race data like tyre temps.

Now, THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT, so if you're skim reading these posts, read this bit at least: as a free player, I should be able to know as much about the current state of my own cars as anyone - subscriber or not - even outside of the 2D viewer. How is it logical for my opponent to know my car's tyre temps, but I don't? Fundamental flaw which needs fixing ASAP.

As I understand it, people using the 2D viewer can see these kinds of details for EVERY car. Isn't that enough of an advantage? Certainly more than in real racing. Plus it's a gorgeous piece of eye candy for those who don't like staring at numbers.

To say it again, the 2D viewer should remain a paid extra, but there is no excuse for not providing every player with full details of his own car's status.

Lock Request, repetitive and nowhere.

As Antonio said earlier, as long as we're staying on topic and not having a 2d vs f2p & no personal insults i'm fine with the discussion continueing [unless any1 wants to lock it] Theres some good points being made inbetween

Yes,  have to agree with this bit - and to be honest hadn't actually appreciated this fact before.
Maybe as a quick fix (although I have no idea how easy it would be) only P2P get info about other P2P drivers - F2P drivers info is blanked out , other that the info on the live timings screen??