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Custom Points Systems

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medal 5000
1 year 330 days ago

Adam

Encourages being crap?!

Well, in that case, why don't we just make a P1 points system? Not being able to win is a skill issue, right? Only the person who wins the race is good enough to actually win the race. 


And plus, what you say will be an issue wherever we draw the line between points positions. People will almost always choose to hold position, even if it means a compromised pace. You wouldn't believe the amount of shithousery I used to see back in the day...



I like this, only the winner gets points ?. Watch people cry even those in mediocre leagues that have the biggest opinions.
md-quotelink
medal 5005
1 year 330 days ago

Adam

And plus, what you say will be an issue wherever we draw the line between points positions.



Exactly, so that it is why customised points will make no difference whatsoever.
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medal 5000
1 year 330 days ago

Dario
Ricky
Olivér

Dario
I like the challenge to get in the top ten and when I got into the points I was well chuffed and motivated me to try harder. I vote to keep the way it is now. Giving points for everyone each race doesn't motivate you.



That supports one freak result over season-long consistency.


No it doesn’t ( although I suspect Dario was being a little sarcastic ?).  To be blunt customised  pts going further down the grid just rewards failure.  What next - cancel races and declare everyone a winner?

If iGP introduce customised pts and leagues vote for it it’s fine, but certainly it isn’t motivator. 



Bang on mate, coming 15th or 16th getting points is stupid and like this guy said it rewards being crap. I have guys in my league and this one guy broke into the top ten, he's now super motivated to stay in the top ten and proper happy he made it.
Getting points at 15th doessnt motivate or excite managers playing.
Check my League wall, managers as Buzzing they got into points, u encourage them which makes people stay and push harder.

Ah yes. I play this racing sim, every day, upgrading my car, training my drivers, managing my setups, for the ABSOLUTE SOLE REASON to make 15th or 16th because I know I’m going to get a point or two. I’m DEFINITELY NOT motivated to keep actively improving to get more points and win races because I know the game rewards being crap.


So all the players who are just outside of making the top 10 should quit? Why have 32 players when only 12-15 can realistically score points? If there is such a big gap between players a custom point system would give more players a chance to actually win points.
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medal 5000
1 year 329 days ago

Stephano

Dario
Ricky
Olivér

Dario
I like the challenge to get in the top ten and when I got into the points I was well chuffed and motivated me to try harder. I vote to keep the way it is now. Giving points for everyone each race doesn't motivate you.



That supports one freak result over season-long consistency.


No it doesn’t ( although I suspect Dario was being a little sarcastic ?).  To be blunt customised  pts going further down the grid just rewards failure.  What next - cancel races and declare everyone a winner?

If iGP introduce customised pts and leagues vote for it it’s fine, but certainly it isn’t motivator. 



Bang on mate, coming 15th or 16th getting points is stupid and like this guy said it rewards being crap. I have guys in my league and this one guy broke into the top ten, he's now super motivated to stay in the top ten and proper happy he made it.
Getting points at 15th doessnt motivate or excite managers playing.
Check my League wall, managers as Buzzing they got into points, u encourage them which makes people stay and push harder.

Ah yes. I play this racing sim, every day, upgrading my car, training my drivers, managing my setups, for the ABSOLUTE SOLE REASON to make 15th or 16th because I know I’m going to get a point or two. I’m DEFINITELY NOT motivated to keep actively improving to get more points and win races because I know the game rewards being crap.


So all the players who are just outside of making the top 10 should quit? Why have 32 players when only 12-15 can realistically score points? If there is such a big gap between players a custom point system would give more players a chance to actually win points.



I agree with all your points Stephano
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medal 5005
1 year 329 days ago

Steven

Stephano

Dario
Ricky
Olivér

Dario
I like the challenge to get in the top ten and when I got into the points I was well chuffed and motivated me to try harder. I vote to keep the way it is now. Giving points for everyone each race doesn't motivate you.



That supports one freak result over season-long consistency.


No it doesn’t ( although I suspect Dario was being a little sarcastic ?).  To be blunt customised  pts going further down the grid just rewards failure.  What next - cancel races and declare everyone a winner?

If iGP introduce customised pts and leagues vote for it it’s fine, but certainly it isn’t motivator. 



Bang on mate, coming 15th or 16th getting points is stupid and like this guy said it rewards being crap. I have guys in my league and this one guy broke into the top ten, he's now super motivated to stay in the top ten and proper happy he made it.
Getting points at 15th doessnt motivate or excite managers playing.
Check my League wall, managers as Buzzing they got into points, u encourage them which makes people stay and push harder.

Ah yes. I play this racing sim, every day, upgrading my car, training my drivers, managing my setups, for the ABSOLUTE SOLE REASON to make 15th or 16th because I know I’m going to get a point or two. I’m DEFINITELY NOT motivated to keep actively improving to get more points and win races because I know the game rewards being crap.


So all the players who are just outside of making the top 10 should quit? Why have 32 players when only 12-15 can realistically score points? If there is such a big gap between players a custom point system would give more players a chance to actually win points.



I agree with all your points Stephano


Sorry Stephano but your post is really weird (in nicest possible way).  I’m assuming that you haven’t understood the objections to the suggestion, but difficult to say as I’m struggling to understand what you are going on about.  However, at no point as anyone said anything about anyone needing to quit.  


Introducing a point system that goes further down the field does I’m afraid reward failure, however harsh that may sound.  If I finish 15th in a race that is failure as clearly something was wrong with my strategy or car development.  Awarding beyond the top 10 gives a manager a false impression they are doing ok.  Yes I get it is nice to gain pts, but for such a low finishing position have they really been earnt?

One of the problems that leads to suggestions like this is that some managers get promoted to Elite too quickly and they are not equipped or experienced enough to compete.  In this thread there are comments from mid level managers saying that the pts allocation should be expanded since they really struggle to finish in the top 10.  Sorry, but that is the reality of the game.  a level 15 manager shouldn’t really expect to be competitive against level 20 managers.  Once the new levels are introduced it will just get worse and hopefully the Dev team will have thought about the league structure, but giving more people pts isn’t the answer.

Personally I preferred F1 when only top 6 scored and always felt it was changed to appease the lower level teams since they needed to be able show some achievement to attract their sponsors.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
1 year 329 days ago

Cole

Steven

Stephano

Dario
Ricky
Olivér

Dario
I like the challenge to get in the top ten and when I got into the points I was well chuffed and motivated me to try harder. I vote to keep the way it is now. Giving points for everyone each race doesn't motivate you.



That supports one freak result over season-long consistency.


No it doesn’t ( although I suspect Dario was being a little sarcastic ?).  To be blunt customised  pts going further down the grid just rewards failure.  What next - cancel races and declare everyone a winner?

If iGP introduce customised pts and leagues vote for it it’s fine, but certainly it isn’t motivator. 



Bang on mate, coming 15th or 16th getting points is stupid and like this guy said it rewards being crap. I have guys in my league and this one guy broke into the top ten, he's now super motivated to stay in the top ten and proper happy he made it.
Getting points at 15th doessnt motivate or excite managers playing.
Check my League wall, managers as Buzzing they got into points, u encourage them which makes people stay and push harder.

Ah yes. I play this racing sim, every day, upgrading my car, training my drivers, managing my setups, for the ABSOLUTE SOLE REASON to make 15th or 16th because I know I’m going to get a point or two. I’m DEFINITELY NOT motivated to keep actively improving to get more points and win races because I know the game rewards being crap.


So all the players who are just outside of making the top 10 should quit? Why have 32 players when only 12-15 can realistically score points? If there is such a big gap between players a custom point system would give more players a chance to actually win points.



I agree with all your points Stephano


Sorry Stephano but your post is really weird (in nicest possible way).  I’m assuming that you haven’t understood the objections to the suggestion, but difficult to say as I’m struggling to understand what you are going on about.  However, at no point as anyone said anything about anyone needing to quit.  


Introducing a point system that goes further down the field does I’m afraid reward failure, however harsh that may sound.  If I finish 15th in a race that is failure as clearly something was wrong with my strategy or car development.  Awarding beyond the top 10 gives a manager a false impression they are doing ok.  Yes I get it is nice to gain pts, but for such a low finishing position have they really been earnt?

One of the problems that leads to suggestions like this is that some managers get promoted to Elite too quickly and they are not equipped or experienced enough to compete.  In this thread there are comments from mid level managers saying that the pts allocation should be expanded since they really struggle to finish in the top 10.  Sorry, but that is the reality of the game.  a level 15 manager shouldn’t really expect to be competitive against level 20 managers.  Once the new levels are introduced it will just get worse and hopefully the Dev team will have thought about the league structure, but giving more people pts isn’t the answer.

Personally I preferred F1 when only top 6 scored and always felt it was changed to appease the lower level teams since they needed to be able show some achievement to attract their sponsors.

First of all, it’s called sarcasm.


Second, there is nothing to understand about the comment. People aren’t going to be satisfied with coming in 15th place because they get points. Yes I get it, making points serves as motivation to keep making points, but isn’t the ultimate goal to be champion? Who is really going to settle for being half decent? This is a racing sim, no one wants to be rewarded for failure.

Also, I don’t understand why people would think this would cause managers to go to elite too early. Top points still go to the winner; unless there was a real close battle that was won by someone sneaking in a point or two in the last race, this scenario would never happen.

I really don’t why your against this considering you also prefer a custom point system (top 6).This should be an option for the host to tinker with as he/she pleases, and if people don’t like it, they leave. 
md-quotelink
medal 4985 Moderator
1 year 329 days ago
Cole
Sorry Stephano but your post is really weird (in nicest possible way).  I’m assuming that you haven’t understood the objections to the suggestion, but difficult to say as I’m struggling to understand what you are going on about.  However, at no point as anyone said anything about anyone needing to quit.  


Introducing a point system that goes further down the field does I’m afraid reward failure, however harsh that may sound.  If I finish 15th in a race that is failure as clearly something was wrong with my strategy or car development.  Awarding beyond the top 10 gives a manager a false impression they are doing ok.  Yes I get it is nice to gain pts, but for such a low finishing position have they really been earnt?

One of the problems that leads to suggestions like this is that some managers get promoted to Elite too quickly and they are not equipped or experienced enough to compete.  In this thread there are comments from mid level managers saying that the pts allocation should be expanded since they really struggle to finish in the top 10.  Sorry, but that is the reality of the game.  a level 15 manager shouldn’t really expect to be competitive against level 20 managers.  Once the new levels are introduced it will just get worse and hopefully the Dev team will have thought about the league structure, but giving more people pts isn’t the answer.

Personally I preferred F1 when only top 6 scored and always felt it was changed to appease the lower level teams since they needed to be able show some achievement to attract their sponsors.

Since when is beating more than half, in a full league, of competitors considered a full failure? More so, since when is a manager fighting every race and consistently finishing in the 10-15th range the worse manager than the guy saving up DPs for 10 races to then get barely in the lower points at 7th with the best car of the league?

md-quotelink
medal 5005
1 year 329 days ago

Stephano

Cole

Steven

Stephano

Dario
Ricky
Olivér

Dario
I like the challenge to get in the top ten and when I got into the points I was well chuffed and motivated me to try harder. I vote to keep the way it is now. Giving points for everyone each race doesn't motivate you.



That supports one freak result over season-long consistency.


No it doesn’t ( although I suspect Dario was being a little sarcastic ?).  To be blunt customised  pts going further down the grid just rewards failure.  What next - cancel races and declare everyone a winner?

If iGP introduce customised pts and leagues vote for it it’s fine, but certainly it isn’t motivator. 



Bang on mate, coming 15th or 16th getting points is stupid and like this guy said it rewards being crap. I have guys in my league and this one guy broke into the top ten, he's now super motivated to stay in the top ten and proper happy he made it.
Getting points at 15th doessnt motivate or excite managers playing.
Check my League wall, managers as Buzzing they got into points, u encourage them which makes people stay and push harder.

Ah yes. I play this racing sim, every day, upgrading my car, training my drivers, managing my setups, for the ABSOLUTE SOLE REASON to make 15th or 16th because I know I’m going to get a point or two. I’m DEFINITELY NOT motivated to keep actively improving to get more points and win races because I know the game rewards being crap.


So all the players who are just outside of making the top 10 should quit? Why have 32 players when only 12-15 can realistically score points? If there is such a big gap between players a custom point system would give more players a chance to actually win points.



I agree with all your points Stephano


Sorry Stephano but your post is really weird (in nicest possible way).  I’m assuming that you haven’t understood the objections to the suggestion, but difficult to say as I’m struggling to understand what you are going on about.  However, at no point as anyone said anything about anyone needing to quit.  


Introducing a point system that goes further down the field does I’m afraid reward failure, however harsh that may sound.  If I finish 15th in a race that is failure as clearly something was wrong with my strategy or car development.  Awarding beyond the top 10 gives a manager a false impression they are doing ok.  Yes I get it is nice to gain pts, but for such a low finishing position have they really been earnt?

One of the problems that leads to suggestions like this is that some managers get promoted to Elite too quickly and they are not equipped or experienced enough to compete.  In this thread there are comments from mid level managers saying that the pts allocation should be expanded since they really struggle to finish in the top 10.  Sorry, but that is the reality of the game.  a level 15 manager shouldn’t really expect to be competitive against level 20 managers.  Once the new levels are introduced it will just get worse and hopefully the Dev team will have thought about the league structure, but giving more people pts isn’t the answer.

Personally I preferred F1 when only top 6 scored and always felt it was changed to appease the lower level teams since they needed to be able show some achievement to attract their sponsors.

First of all, it’s called sarcasm.


Second, there is nothing to understand about the comment. People aren’t going to be satisfied with coming in 15th place because they get points. Yes I get it, making points serves as motivation to keep making points, but isn’t the ultimate goal to be champion? Who is really going to settle for being half decent? This is a racing sim, no one wants to be rewarded for failure.

Also, I don’t understand why people would think this would cause managers to go to elite too early. Top points still go to the winner; unless there was a real close battle that was won by someone sneaking in a point or two in the last race, this scenario would never happen.

I really don’t why your against this considering you also prefer a custom point system (top 6).This should be an option for the host to tinker with as he/she pleases, and if people don’t like it, they leave. 


I said the problem stems from managers getting promoted too early and yes I prefer the old F1 scoring system but that doesn’t mean I would want the scoring changed in this game.
Frank
Cole
Sorry Stephano but your post is really weird (in nicest possible way).  I’m assuming that you haven’t understood the objections to the suggestion, but difficult to say as I’m struggling to understand what you are going on about.  However, at no point as anyone said anything about anyone needing to quit.  


Introducing a point system that goes further down the field does I’m afraid reward failure, however harsh that may sound.  If I finish 15th in a race that is failure as clearly something was wrong with my strategy or car development.  Awarding beyond the top 10 gives a manager a false impression they are doing ok.  Yes I get it is nice to gain pts, but for such a low finishing position have they really been earnt?

One of the problems that leads to suggestions like this is that some managers get promoted to Elite too quickly and they are not equipped or experienced enough to compete.  In this thread there are comments from mid level managers saying that the pts allocation should be expanded since they really struggle to finish in the top 10.  Sorry, but that is the reality of the game.  a level 15 manager shouldn’t really expect to be competitive against level 20 managers.  Once the new levels are introduced it will just get worse and hopefully the Dev team will have thought about the league structure, but giving more people pts isn’t the answer.

Personally I preferred F1 when only top 6 scored and always felt it was changed to appease the lower level teams since they needed to be able show some achievement to attract their sponsors.

Since when is beating more than half, in a full league, of competitors considered a full failure? More so, since when is a manager fighting every race and consistently finishing in the 10-15th range the worse manager than the guy saving up DPs for 10 races to then get barely in the lower points at 7th with the best car 


As I said from my perspective when I finish 15th I consider that a failure as 14 have done something better than me

md-quotelink
medal 5000
1 year 326 days ago
In my opinion devs should introduce it.

It's not a feature that would be hard to make. So why not?

It would open battles in midfield, they would get something to fight for, which some leagues lack of.(in the midfield)

It also narrows down the current confusing system if you have 0 points.

I personally don't see why are you against it, it would be just an option for the league's owner after all.
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medal 5721
1 year 326 days ago

Helmut
In my opinion devs should introduce it.

It's not a feature that would be hard to make. So why not?

It would open battles in midfield, they would get something to fight for, which some leagues lack of.(in the midfield)

It also narrows down the current confusing system if you have 0 points.

I personally don't see why are you against it, it would be just an option for the league's owner after all.


I think you guys don’t realise igp is a small studio, if you prioritize this, other things like fixing bugs would need to be postponed.


In my view it would be a nice to have but not a priority issue
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medal 5000
1 year 326 days ago
You are all wrong I am right……. Apart from anyone that agrees with me of course then they are also correct.

For every one player who loves not scoring points and still attends and eventually after 3/4 seasons does well there are many lost to the game as they level up too quickly, enter elite too soon due to other problems in the game and then give up. I see it so often however you all know best. 

Let’s just give the winner 10 points and everyone nothing as 2nd is just first loser after all
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medal 5026
1 year 326 days ago
?

I appreciate Full Throttle X's joke but by looking previous pages, here we go again...

Level 20 players against non level 20 players.
 I add my opinion about points. It should be a dynamic system.
Are you first among 32 cars? 50 points
Are you first among 4 cars? 2 points

More cars, more scoring positions.
A fifth place in a 32 cars race is not like a fifth place in a 6 cars race.

Ok, it's not an iGP priority, someone doesn't like new points systems but stop shooting against new players.

It's not their fault if the game is unbalanced. You can be level 7 after your first race but you will need five seasons to progress from 19 to 20.

Start blaming developers and not new players because new players cannot score a point. When I am a level 9 in elite don't tell me that "your strategy is bad" because when I raced against people having 7 levels above mine, 1 of their DRS was 3 of mine and their boost looked infinite.

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medal 5000 Super Mod
1 year 326 days ago
Giovanni has a valid argument, one which us old time L20 players often overlook. It got me thinking which is always a dangerous thing.

I realise it would probably be difficult to code and much testing would be required so as to minimise introducing all manner of bugs, but I think a level grouping in Elite would be great for indicating how competitive the lower-level teams are. The advantage of such an approach is that it could be implemented globally instead of leagues running different rules to others. There would be three championships running concurrently, the main one would be as it is now, but the second and third would give points to level groups (for the sake of this example call them F2 and F3).
F1: L16 - L20
F2: L11 - L15
F3: L1 - L10

For the main championship points would be awarded exactly as now.
For the Formula championship points would be awarded by group (example only I haven't properly thought this through)
P1 = 10
P2 = 6
P3 = 3
P4 = 2
P5 = 1

Then there would be three tables
1. The main championship (the same as now)
2. F2 Championship
3. F3 Championship

Probably needs a bit more thinking through but it would mean that lower-level teams would be competing for something, the advantage is that it could be implemented globally rather than different leagues running entirely different rules.

Here's how I envisage it might look:
These are the race results


These are the tables

This gives the teams who often finish outside the points in the main championship something to aim for.
Debate LOL
md-quotelink
medal 5000
1 year 326 days ago

Kevin
Giovanni has a valid argument, one which us old time L20 players often overlook. It got me thinking which is always a dangerous thing.

I realise it would probably be difficult to code and much testing would be required so as to minimise introducing all manner of bugs, but I think a level grouping in Elite would be great for indicating how competitive the lower-level teams are. The advantage of such an approach is that it could be implemented globally instead of leagues running different rules to others. There would be three championships running concurrently, the main one would be as it is now, but the second and third would give points to level groups (for the sake of this example call them F2 and F3).
F1: L16 - L20
F2: L11 - L15
F3: L1 - L10

For the main championship points would be awarded exactly as now.
For the Formula championship points would be awarded by group (example only I haven't properly thought this through)
P1 = 10
P2 = 6
P3 = 3
P4 = 2
P5 = 1

Then there would be three tables
1. The main championship (the same as now)
2. F2 Championship
3. F3 Championship

Probably needs a bit more thinking through but it would mean that lower-level teams would be competing for something, the advantage is that it could be implemented globally rather than different leagues running entirely different rules.

Here's how I envisage it might look:
These are the race results


These are the tables

This gives the teams who often finish outside the points in the main championship something to aim for.
Debate LOL



This is solid. A well thought out approach as always ?.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
1 year 325 days ago
I quite like this idea if it could be implemented, but in answer to Giovanni this is not as simple as saying it’s lvl 20 vs Non lvl 20 players.  

Not all Elite leagues are built the same so If a manager is in an Elite league as a lower level manager they always have the choice of moving to a weaker than average league where they will be more competitive. They won’t level up so quickly but  will score pts if that is what they want.  

Even when you are level 20 there are leagues which the average manager would find  themselves in the same position as lower level managers disincentivised by their failure to score pts in less stronger leagues. So it is not just a question of differing DRS or boost levels.   

Everyone has a choice of the type of league they join so sometimes an element of common sense needs to be applied and if a league is too strong  and you want to be competitive.  Alternatively you can build your level up in a stronger league and eventually be competitive.  It is simply of question of choosing the approach you prefer.  Remember all the level 20’s you moan about have gone through this themselves.
md-quotelink
medal 5000 Super Mod
1 year 325 days ago
It has the potential to replace the tier system entirely which would also benefit private leagues where friends all want to race together but at the moment the entire league is stuck in Rookie.

It would also reduce load on servers as there would only need to be one race per league.
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medal 5000
1 year 325 days ago (Last edited by Skid Solo 1 year 325 days ago)
Kevin
It has the potential to replace the tier system entirely which would also benefit private leagues where friends all want to race together but at the moment the entire league is stuck in Rookie.

It would also reduce load on servers as there would only need to be one race per league.


Maybe there should be 4 championships to take into account the forthcoming extension of levels up to 30.

There are aspects that need to be thought through such size of league.  Also what do completely new players do as a lot of leagues will potentially be full (32 isn’t a lot taking into account current tiers and I’m not sure how many cars iGP could reasonably accommodate in a race beyond this number?)

md-quotelink
medal 5000 Super Mod
1 year 325 days ago
Good point.
Maybe I should make this a separate thread under Suggestions
md-quotelink
medal 5000
1 year 325 days ago

Kevin
Good point.
Maybe I should make this a separate thread under Suggestions


Sounds like a plan

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medal 5026
1 year 325 days ago
Multiclass racing. Great idea!

It sounds as good as my multigroup suggestion.



Ricky
I quite like this idea if it could be implemented, but in answer to Giovanni this is not as simple as saying it’s lvl 20 vs Non lvl 20 players.


Ok, it's too simplified but, when you read most of the suggestions, it looks like that most of the lvl 20 players see the root of any problem in player promoted too early in elite. Why this argument was brought in this topic?!? I mean there were many players from rookie or pro tier in first page and suddenly (as usual) you see the lvl 20 players saying that manager promoted too early in elite were complaining...


I don't see the relationship between early promoted players and custom points, but this is what usually happens... I will laugh when this is thrown again in any discussion.
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