Roulette

Dario P
163 days ago

For a game that's completely against random acts and gambling it makes me laugh that I just wasted 70 tokens on a driver to NOT get a single special ability. Absolute joke.

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Red Craigie Super Mod
163 days ago

You hit a T30 driver in a L14 academy? That in itself is a feat, why would you expect a special ability on top?

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Dario P
163 days ago

Red

You hit a T30 driver in a L14 academy? That in itself is a feat, why would you expect a special ability on top?

Not on this account, my main account.

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Red Craigie Super Mod
163 days ago

Ahh, would be helpful if you posted from the correct account :-).

I don't really understand your complaint though, perhaps its based on perception, you seem to be purchasing under the expectation that you will receive a special ability included within your price of 70 tokens. While I would expect only the information which is guaranteed. You know you are paying a driver with some basic information, Height, Gender and talent. So hardly a game of roulette.

You may get lucky and have your driver generate with a driver ability. But it seems you find this to be a problem. Would you be happier if there was no chance of a driver ability at all?

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Dario P
163 days ago

The Devs refuse to add anything random during races, for example missing a chicane, going wide etc and they said they do not want anything random affecting the game. I kinda get it, I'm not trying to bad mouth anyone here whatsoever but it's a bit silly you spend 70 tokens which I paid for with real money and I don't even get a common as standard but as it stands it's completely random and luck. It's just a huge contradiction.

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Dick Dastardly
163 days ago

Dj

The Devs refuse to add anything random during races, for example missing a chicane, going wide etc and they said they do not want anything random affecting the game. I kinda get it, I'm not trying to bad mouth anyone here whatsoever but it's a bit silly you spend 70 tokens which I paid for with real money and I don't even get a common as standard but as it stands it's completely random and luck. It's just a huge contradiction.

I don’t believe it is the same as no one knows when they take on a driver whether they be any good which is pretty similar to real life.

However, the randomness of this arguably makes the purchase a loot box and this potentially creates issues in countries such as Belgium who consider Loot boxes to fall under their gambling laws. Several other EU countries are looking to introduce some legislation to cover loot boxes or like UK bring them under the auspices of the existing Consumer Protection laws. At the very least iGP could provide purchasers with the odds of receiving a driver with no special skill, or the odds of a common, a rare or a legendary driver etc. As a small studio its surely prudent to do this?

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Archie Bald
163 days ago (Last edited by Archie Bald 163 days ago)

Don't agree with any of the opinions except Red's.

Purchasing a driver is definitely not a loot box. You can clearly see what you are getting before your purchase. Anything extra is a bonus and has nothing to do with the terms of your original purchase. The question mark maybe could be on favorite tracks, that could be declared before purchase.

What you are buying is the height, sex and weight as advertised. Nothing random in that. You get what you see.

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Red Craigie Super Mod
163 days ago

I think calling them loot boxes is a stretch.

Definition: a container with a selection of things inside that can be used when playing the game. You can buy loot boxes with real or game money and you do not usually know what is inside until you open it

You know that you are getting a driver, the drivers talent. The drivers height. You do have an unknown chance of gaining a driver ability, but that is not part of the price. Just a bonus. You are also able to upgrade that driver to gain the drivers ability.

The only unknown and/or unchangeable element of a driver at point of purchase is the drivers favourite track, and I don't think that's enough to push the classification.

You can also purchase drivers with all of these factors known from the auction house.

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Dick Dastardly
163 days ago (Last edited by Dick Dastardly 163 days ago)

Red

I think calling them loot boxes is a stretch.

Definition: a container with a selection of things inside that can be used when playing the game. You can buy loot boxes with real or game money and you do not usually know what is inside until you open it

You know that you are getting a driver, the drivers talent. The drivers height. You do have an unknown chance of gaining a driver ability, but that is not part of the price. Just a bonus. You are also able to upgrade that driver to gain the drivers ability.

The only unknown and/or unchangeable element of a driver at point of purchase is the drivers favourite track, and I don't think that's enough to push the classification.

You can also purchase drivers with all of these factors known from the auction house.

Archie/ Craig, Driver special abilities are not a bonus and to say they are nor part of the purchase is verging on the ridiculous! They are now an integral part of the game and randomly applied to this particular way of purchasing so you have no way of knowing way what you are going to get until you open your purchase, hence why I said it is arguably a Loot Box.

The fact you can purchase drivers in the transfer market with these factors known is not a justification for why it is ok for it to be unknown via other methods in the game, its actually a justification as to why they should also be known using the method Dario did to purchase his driver.

Other games I play allow you can see the drop rates for all random aspects of a purchase so you can make an informed decision as to whether the purchase is worthwhile (I’m talking about both cash purchases and purchases with in game currency). This is not difficult for iGP to add if they don’t want to remove the random nature of driver special abilities. Special Tracks is less of an issue imo as you know you are getting this attribute so the drop rate is 100% even if you don’t know what track it will be.

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Archie Bald
163 days ago

That's a solid argument and I'm inclined to agree after looking at it from that point of view. For the fact that the info is available on the market (I didn't even think of this) then it should be in the YA.

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Red Craigie Super Mod
162 days ago

Hmmm. But the price of the driver/staff I believe is predefined as 10 + Staff/Driver Level x 2. This is why I say it is not part of the price.

For the 70 tokens you are paying for what you see, Talent 30, the displayed height and gender known at point of purchase. So I'm on the other side of the discussion. Yes there is a chance that you get a driver ability, and perhaps the percentage chances could be disclosed to the player. But as that additional factor from my point of judgement is effectively a free bonus, I feel that element fails the criteria to be a loot box. It's more like a free entry into a raffle when you make a purchase. You might get nothing, you might get an ability worth 50 tokens. (I've not heard of a rare or legendary ability coming straight out of the academy but maybe it's possible?)

Funnily enough I'm then on the other side of the fence on favourite track. The fact that it's unknown and can't be changed plays against it for me. The only mitigation there is that you could hunt the auction house if you were after a specific favourite track. As in my opinion some favourite tracks are better than others.

This is an interesting discussion so happy to hear more opinions on this.

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Dario P
161 days ago

Me personally I think you should get a special ability as standard a common ability, With a chance of getting a better quality one. It's simply not worth paying real cash to have no ability. I spent real money and I am absolutely not enticed to buy another driver, What if that doesn't have one? That's a lot of real cash wasted. From what I hear having a legendary gives you quite a advantage and for my money I want at least a common. Imo is totally justified to get a basic ability. I've never heard of anyone getting anything good so maybe it's just a con ? Just like the CD in auction is rigged to always give you a bad positive stat. I've not seen a usable CD with good stats.

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Kevin Bissell Super Mod
161 days ago

An more extreme example of not knowing what you're going to get for your money is paying to refresh the Youth Academy or Offices and Hospitality.

I have no idea what the probabilities are of generating a tall T30 driver or a high level CD with good strength/weakness. If the expectation of the game is you spend 50 tokens (approx. £3 GBP) just to generate the driver/staff (which you then have to buy for an additional 70 tokens) you should at least have some idea of the probability that your 50 token spend will be successful.

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Red Craigie Super Mod
161 days ago

Dj

Me personally I think you should get a special ability as standard a common ability, With a chance of getting a better quality one. It's simply not worth paying real cash to have no ability. I spent real money and I am absolutely not enticed to buy another driver, What if that doesn't have one? That's a lot of real cash wasted. From what I hear having a legendary gives you quite a advantage and for my money I want at least a common. Imo is totally justified to get a basic ability. I've never heard of anyone getting anything good so maybe it's just a con ? Just like the CD in auction is rigged to always give you a bad positive stat. I've not seen a usable CD with good stats.

I've found plenty of decent CD's on the market working my way through the levels so far. So your experience does not line up with mine. You are making a false statement saying that it is rigged.
Right now when I open my market, there are two CD's both with good strengths (Braking and Fuel Economy), weaknesses aren't optimal but you say you never see a good positive stat.

Just to check, you are aware that the cost to add a common ability to a driver without one is 50 tokens. Getting a driver without an ability does not prevent you from ever having one. It is also 50 tokens to upgrade the abilities level 1 tier, or to change it to a different ability.

From your stance then can I assume you believe that a basic talent 30 driver is worth only 20 tokens? What would you say a talent 1 driver is worth?

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Dario P
160 days ago

Red

Dj

Me personally I think you should get a special ability as standard a common ability, With a chance of getting a better quality one. It's simply not worth paying real cash to have no ability. I spent real money and I am absolutely not enticed to buy another driver, What if that doesn't have one? That's a lot of real cash wasted. From what I hear having a legendary gives you quite a advantage and for my money I want at least a common. Imo is totally justified to get a basic ability. I've never heard of anyone getting anything good so maybe it's just a con ? Just like the CD in auction is rigged to always give you a bad positive stat. I've not seen a usable CD with good stats.

I've found plenty of decent CD's on the market working my way through the levels so far. So your experience does not line up with mine. You are making a false statement saying that it is rigged.
Right now when I open my market, there are two CD's both with good strengths (Braking and Fuel Economy), weaknesses aren't optimal but you say you never see a good positive stat.

Just to check, you are aware that the cost to add a common ability to a driver without one is 50 tokens. Getting a driver without an ability does not prevent you from ever having one. It is also 50 tokens to upgrade the abilities level 1 tier, or to change it to a different ability.

From your stance then can I assume you believe that a basic talent 30 driver is worth only 20 tokens? What would you say a talent 1 driver is worth?

So you seem to disagree with every comment so I'll just ignore you, and it was a question not a statement. And it's a fact the odds are slimmer to get good the god rolls and it predominantly rolls against you, which I understand and know why it's like that. Leaving also brings up a very good point. I don't think anyone is silly enough to spend tokens to refresh are they? 😄

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Red Craigie Super Mod
160 days ago

Rest assured if you say something i agree with I will let you know. For the most part I’m trying to understand your viewpoint compared to mine. I’ve explained the formula behind the token cost of staff and how it doesn’t include the value of a driver ability. I don’t feel I’m being unreasonable.

How is

“just like the CD is rigged to always give you a bad positive stat”

a question?

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Dick Dastardly
160 days ago

Red

Rest assured if you say something i agree with I will let you know. For the most part I’m trying to understand your viewpoint compared to mine. I’ve explained the formula behind the token cost of staff and how it doesn’t include the value of a driver ability. I don’t feel I’m being unreasonable.

How is

“just like the CD is rigged to always give you a bad positive stat”

a question?

I do have some sympathy for Dario’s view of CDs in the auction as you rarely see them with positive stats and on the rare occasions you do they normally have one of the big four as a weakness. In my auction I just saw 2 5 star with Reliability/Handling and Reliability/Downforce and this is pretty typical of what I see. When I refreshed and another two appeared they had same attributes. On another of my accounts I saw Cooling/ Acceleration and Reliability/Fuel Economy. When the auction refreshed it kept the same CD’s. Before the update the auctions were pretty active with multiple bids for drivers/CDs, something you don’t see now.

On the point about the formula if I read it correctly a lvl1 driver would be valued at 12 tokens when we all know its worthless? So maybe, the formula needs a bit of tweaking

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Rhys James
160 days ago

There will always be fewer CDs with desirable stats, because so many of them are in teams. I've no evidence for any other reason for this quirk of the market.

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Dick Dastardly
160 days ago

Rhys

There will always be fewer CDs with desirable stats, because so many of them are in teams. I've no evidence for any other reason for this quirk of the market.

You are right, but before the change to the transfer market you could buy them there (e.g. Acceleration/Cooling, Braking/Reliabilty). Of course they were much harder to acquire as lots of managers would bid for them. Personally, i try to buy via the HQ ( although this is less attractive since the increase in levels), but recently all I see there are bad stats and lower levels so its much harder and the cynic in me would say its designed to try and make you spend coins on changing attributes.

Personally I believe something has changed making it unblalanced. In the long run this will be to the game’s detriment and ultimately less revenue for iGP.

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Chris 'Iceman' Tones
160 days ago

Not sure if i read it correctly or not, i haven't actually gone into it at all however i think Academy drivers should not have any special ability at all where everyone is on a level playing field in that respect that you have to use tokens to get one.

Also the favorite track.. it was assigned to my drivers (who were nearly 30 when the update came about) and for the tracks assigned i checked through the race history and it was actually the other way around lmao. It should have gone on race history for established drivers, and for Academy drivers it should come over time, maybe 5 seasons for example.

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