Suggested

Problem of Reputation System

The reputation & Hall of Fame system has updated one month ago. But I have found a problem in the new reputation system, which is moderate managers in elite tier reputation keep deducting if they're racing in a very competitive league although they're just behind the winner 20 secs to 40 secs but due to always finished in lower position so made their reputation keep deducting. Ex: Muhammad Faris, Budin Racing & Harris Field (they have maxed Design & Tech HQs) are having average skills and they always finished just behind us 20 to 40 secs, but because of finished in lower position, so their reputation is keep deducting, especially the reputation of Budin & Harris has deducted to below of 6000 reputation (This's ridiculous, based on their skills, they should at least have 6000++ reputation). And they will dominate the league easily and reputation increased very fast if they went to join a weaker & uncompetitive league.
  Then, if Kevin Bissell saw my thread, high percentage Kevin Bissell will reply my thread that telling Muhammad Faris, Budin Racing & Harris Feild to leave my league and join another league. But I think most of everyone will love competitive league except those guys who don't like any challenge & struggles. So I think a more activity (more active managers setup the cars every day), a more competitive league should deserve higher reputation increasing, not only based on their finished position to give how many reputation for them. This's inaccurate. I've adapted the new system and my reputation is keep increasing very fast after the new update but I think moderate managers in my league shouldn't below 6000 reputation. They deserve more than that. Thanks.
  Perhaps the system should based on their finished race times to give how many reputation to them instead of finished position.

This would mean a race winner who ran in front alone the whole race (no drs) would gain less rep points then a winner of a train race (who used drs.)

As the latter had a better finish time, as he used drs, that would mean giving him more rep points then the first?

However, using finished position to count the reputation definitely is not the best option and it would has many unfair for different managers in different league. Using finished race times to count the reputation is slightly a better option although having the issue as you mentioned.

Replied
-What about wet weather races?
-What about if you race at any circuit as the first race of the season when all design attributes are low compared to another league  racing at the same circuit as the 20th race of the season?
-What about teams competing in Season 1 of any league when everyone starts with only 16 total dp? 
-What about variable season lengths? I imagine people competing in 22 race seasons will have an enormous advantage over those  running 15 race seasons (ironically the opposite to the current situation).
Answer: Definitely there will have their own finished race times calculation system based on different weather condition, different types of league (1 car, 2 cars, alone & train league), season length, etc....to make sure everyone are fair to get the reputation which they deserved.
Replied
-Why would anyone question losing Rep points when these teams are finishing 40 seconds behind the winner and after six races none of the three managers you mention have scored a single championship point.
Answer: This's simple. It's because my league has became a very tough league since LOLITA joined and helped us to progress & improve our skills. Special mention Muhammad Faris, he never finished behind us more than 27 secs but he still couldn't get a point in the league.

Replied:
-Lolita came along and proved that many of you still have a lot to learn. If she returned she'd still probably beat you all by a considerable margin. I've raced against her and know how strong she is.
Answer: We have closed the gap between her from 15 secs (beginning & mid-season) to the last few races (Nick, Faris & I had beat her after we caught her car development).

Replied:
-27 seconds behind the winning car and out of the points is not a good argument for an increase in reputation.
Answer: less than 27 seconds behind the winning car is actually a small & good gap between moderate managers and strong managers if compared with most of the leagues (mostly moderate managers will overlapped by strong managers in many other leagues), how do you explain that this's not a good argument for an increase in reputation?

I agree with the point, that the system need some improvement. The easiest way would be to increase the Factor of the league Reputation so for example if you race in a stronger league a 10th place would give the same Reputation gain like 1st place in a weaker league.

Now to your example, your league is in the best case average...
27 seconds behind the winner is a poor Performance and would lead to Relegation in a Top league... players who get lapped should stop being online, because the computer will do it better. A poor Performance is 20+ sec behind the winner an average Performance is 10-20 sec behind the winner.
So should they gain Reputation? Absolutely not.


In Addition pure race time does say nothing, because you are not alone on the track. The Goal is to win and the fastest strategy on Paper often does not lead to winning. Because of dealing with opponents. I often use a "slower" strategy which gives me the opportunity to block my opponents or let them pull me.

You're right. But if I use the example of race as you given, in a stronger league a 10th place would give the same Reputation gain like 1st place in a weaker league, low average reputation league = weak league? high average reputation league = strong league? Is this mean devs team need to reintroduce the old reputation system (old reputation system is based on the league average reputation) which contains many bugs & unfair factors? It's disadvantages for my league because there're many weaker leagues are having higher average reputation than my league. So we need a new system that which can judge how strong the league is, based on competitiveness of the league & spectating how the managers develop the car for every different tracks in the league. And this system will fit into your suggestion perfectly.

Yes thats what i mean, even increase the league reputation Factor.

The old system was not perfect but far better than the current system. Yes there was one bias that older leagues had a slight higher Reputation than younger leagues but thats the shortcoming of founding a league... 
But there weren't bugs....
There will never be a perfect system, it is impossible to compare leagues perfetcly. The only solution would be one league system where everyone races everyone thats impossible based on the time of the managers.


When i look at the current Hall of Fame i See managers i raced against or were in our league who had no chance at all then left to dominate a weak league and who are now in the hall of Fame in front of the managers who had beaten them....

So the current system gives good managers in Bad leagues a big advantage over strong managers in a good leagues...

REPLIED:
So the current system gives good managers in Bad leagues a big advantage over strong managers in a good leagues...
Answer: This's why I posted the thread. Because there was a No.1 Malaysian manager in our nation standing, Versek kk (his used his main account dexster yy which was having 7500 rep++ before joining) had joined my league. His reputation is so high due to he was dominating a league previously that average reputation is high, but only few elite managers are active only.  And after he joined my league, he was struggled all the time by finishing without any points in most of the races, and in this Friday, he cried like a baby in live chat (blaming why my league is so strong) while racing Great Britain 19 iGP then after the race he left my league immediately.

Activity is a good point, maybe the Number of managers in a league in the calculation can be substituted by managers online....

Lai, please stop naming me everywhere. Lolita said this, Lolita said that, Lolita did this, Lolita did that. 
If I thought you guys closed the gap with me I would have stayed in the league. As I already told you when I was there, you guys still have a lot to learn. Before I came in your league you knew nothing about the game but still considered yourself above my level when we discussed about the game on the forums. I only came there to prove you wrong and you soon accused me of cheating once you saw the enormous difference between me and the rest of you. And to prove you I was not cheating I explained you a few things which are just the basics of the game dynamics. That's all. And it doesn't mean you and the other guys are now great managers. When I left your league I adviced you to keep learning and improving cause there still was A LOT to do. 
I'm currently in another league where a few people had 9500-9600 reputation in the old HoF and they think they're great with the game. I only raced the first 3 races and I scored three 1-2's. In one race I didn't even set up the car and strategy and the race after I had a penalty for not using double compound because of that (yeah, lol..). Then I've been offline for other 4 races and yesterday I joined almost mid-race with burnt tyres and in P11&P14. I finished P3 and P4, 1.5 sec behind the winner. And guess what? After all this, I'm still leading the Championship. And I will leave the league at the end of the season for the same reason I left yours. These guys had a very high reputation but are not even near my level when I'm online. And this is just to show you - for the Nth time - how the numeric reputation in this game counts absolutely NOTHING. 
So as Kevin said, a "tough league" doesn't mean a "great league". And yours is not a great league. No offence - I hope for you it will become a great one in the future.
But you can't ask devs to change the reputation system just because backmarkers in your league lose reputation, which is something absolutely normal.
And I don't even understand why you're so focused on this whole damn reputation thing, which is something absolutely USELESS, UNRELIABLE and UNTRUTHFUL in this game, in any cases.

Exactly.





I love number, so I think reputation is important in the game, it's the symbol of our skills, no other reason. I mention your name just because I'm still thankful your helping. I didn't say my league is strong, I was just said my league is tough but not very very strong, definitely cannot compared with those leagues which fully "pro" managers.

Sorry Lai Yong Liang, but being 27.0s behind the winning car is not 'actually a small & good gap between moderate managers and strong managers', in any race distance.

That is the total time for 2 whole pit stops in the iGP Europe, and +1.5 pit stops the average pit stop in iGP Manager, quite frankly a massive race time gap, and usually indicative of a weak overall league, as it proved to be the case when Lolita joined your league a while back.


Kevin Bissell has been in this game a lot longer than me, and I can say from my near 3 years in this game, and reading all the various posts in the Forum, he has never once indicated to anyone ever to leave their league to join another league.

In fact, I can recall you doing this exact thing in another league, The One and Only Racing League, where you covertly sent regular private messages asking for all the members there in Pro tier to leave their league, and join with your league, only to be shot down by many of the long term members in that league.

Shame the messages are no longer visible, but the no nonsense replies from Darren Kelly in particular, kind of summed it all up.

'Why are you asking us to leave the league when we are happy here?' - Darren Kelly

Are you tracking all my messages?? You shouldn't do that because this's not your business. I was just telling a better solution for them if they want promotion to elite tier and I didn't forcibly to want them leave their league, this's just an invitation only. As you can see, I had put my jnr team to race with them for compensate. This's already out of topic, you shouldn't mention it again.

About Kevin...I'm still remembered that he told me to quit my league and join another league (alternatively leave and join a different league with more of a challenge) while I was writing the thread of "Reputation 1 Car League", but the things has been solved because current system has already be fair to 1 Car League manager. Managers in 1 Car League can get the same amount of reputation as in 2 Cars League if finished in similar position.

Sadly for you, I am not 'tracking all your messages' I caught a glimpse of the it, when you mentioned on my league board that you were leaving the league, specifically to 'help' this league (The One and Only League), with your Pro account, and I was curious to see if your 'help' was going to 'make the league more active', as you wrote.

Instead, unfortunately all I saw on their league board were regular, heated complaints about you, and you asking their managers to join your league, which shows the hypocrisy in making the earlier comment:

Because there're looking for promotion seat to elite tier so I just gave suggestions to them only. I think this has already out of topic.
I made the second guess just due to the habits of Kevin likes to consider me to adapt the system more instead of giving suggestion while I posted something new.

Yes, man. And please bring back to the main topic.