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medal 5000
3 years 156 days ago (Last edited by Gary Chittick 3 years 153 days ago)
Hi Folks. 

Can you please make an overhead view of how the livery will look during design BEFORE you have to pay the tokens. The number of times I've had a nice 3D livery that looks like crap from above cannot be counted on two hands. Given the vast majority view in 2D from above, this viewer BEFORE token commit should be seen as essential. Otherwise it continues to be guesswork how you'll render from above.

Thanks.

Everyone. 
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medal 5000
3 years 156 days ago
I've found myself thinking that once or twice. Good luck.
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medal 5000
3 years 154 days ago

Right
I've found myself thinking that once or twice. Good luck.



I expect its an easy to implement and essential change. Why design in 3D and not be able to see how it'll look in 2D from above. At best it's shameful and negligent at worst. 
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medal 5000
3 years 154 days ago
I've asked for this before and got no reply :(
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medal 5000
3 years 153 days ago

Mr
I've asked for this before and got no reply :(



That's terrible and frankly not acceptable from a customer service point of view. I'll give it a week and then will expect a go live date to be announced. This is all about benefits, there are no risks or issues. 
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medal 5000
3 years 152 days ago
Oh they know best apparently , for example the 3D that no one will ever use. They have a vision that doesn't include active players ?
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medal 6091 Community Manager
3 years 152 days ago
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!
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medal 5000
3 years 152 days ago

José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!

What constitutes as 'an active player' exactly? Are monthly players who log in once or twice, in this bracket?


I can see how the numbers can be misleading, with this number of 70% likely boosted by new download players (ie. players who will try the game for a few days, and then uninstall the game)
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medal 5000
3 years 152 days ago

José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!



I'd really be surprised if this is accurate. Personally 3D is crap in comparison to 2D, management wise.


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medal 5000
3 years 152 days ago
José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!



This is a complete lie, show me your data?  Every time I enter a race it is FORCED 3D I have to back out and renter to get 2D. Also my setting is on 2D and it still forces it. so my guess is you are using this stat on new managers that sign up play once then quits therefore making it appear 3D is highly used. Let's be honest brutally honest 3D ain't ever gonna work on your phone no one wants it, it's completely stupid considering this is a manager game. On PC or laptop I totally get it that's where 3D shine but I know for a fact 90% of players are on mobile. But on that note the work put into it is obviously a lot work and I can't knock that but claiming 7/10 use 3D is funny.
If you want to see my data check the igp forum..lol also notice the dip in activity since 3D? Hugh spike in complaints and suggestions etc and now nothing so I can only assume you mean 7 of 10 active players?
P s give us an update we want or make the game better somehow anyway I don't care anymore so long as you do something and I will stop trolling it's been years since an update.
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medal 5056
3 years 152 days ago

José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!



It is, But I wonder how different it would be if you either made it more obvious that you could use 2D or have people who download the game automatically start on 2D instead of 3D.
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medal 5000
3 years 152 days ago
José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!



I agree 3D us nice... But I can never use it. New active players will use it (as it is default) but the most active (multiple accounts, racing daily, entering tournaments)... Can never use it if they want to race at their true pace. iGP is in a hard position where legendary players, people I've races with and against, feel excluded... While we get a viewer with cars going over tunnels and hoardings, new players, who I accept are 70% per cent of your playerbase, get automatic timing, the ability to see their livery as they made it (as opposed to mine, which is bleached somehow ?) what was mentioned before and more... While I applaud many changes made recently (especially the 4.026/4.032 update, at least on paper) it's things like this that make older players feel disvalued and move on, as the game moves from a niche management game into a commercialised race game. Just please, remember that we existed before 3D ❤️
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medal 5000
3 years 152 days ago

José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!



Not at all. You show me yours. In any case, this is about rendering the above view in 2D which is desperately needed. When will it be ready? 
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medal 5000
3 years 151 days ago
I think the introduction of 3D was highly planned, but there is a way for it to be used more.
In the part where we see cars on the map, which is one of the 3D camera options, put the current 2D!
So in moments that seek more strategy from managers we can still use 2D and at other times follow the beauty of a 3D game!

Simple change that will increase the use of 3D!

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medal 5538 CEO & CTO
3 years 151 days ago (Last edited by Jack Basford 3 years 151 days ago)
This is probably the wrong thread to put this in, because it's quite off-topic, but the thread has already derailed. I had to respond to this.

Rhys
I agree 3D us nice... But I can never use it. New active players will use it (as it is default) but the most active (multiple accounts, racing daily, entering tournaments)... Can never use it if they want to race at their true pace. iGP is in a hard position where legendary players, people I've races with and against, feel excluded... While we get a viewer with cars going over tunnels and hoardings, new players, who I accept are 70% per cent of your playerbase, get automatic timing, the ability to see their livery as they made it (as opposed to mine, which is bleached somehow ?) what was mentioned before and more... While I applaud many changes made recently (especially the 4.026/4.032 update, at least on paper) it's things like this that make older players feel disvalued and move on, as the game moves from a niche management game into a commercialised race game. Just please, remember that we existed before 3D ❤️

Don't read too much in to posts from José or anyone else. He's frustrated after months of trying to appease a community that is, on the whole, being quite hostile towards him. One person determines our priorities (me!) and I've not forgotten you, at all. This is all going to come full circle and benefit you the most in the end. I expected to be able to show you what we're going to do with this new platform much sooner, and to already have some gameplay updates out by now, but 3D was a huge technical challenge that put more obstalces in front of us than we had anticipated. Only now are we able to turn our focus to gameplay.

With the benefit of hindsight, all "changes" to racing since 3D were just unintended consequences of changing the circuits. We made no changes to Boost, DRS, overtaking or physics. In other words, it was reasonable to expect that gameplay, which everyone was universally happy with prior to the update, would remain fundamentally consistent. Unfortunately, that wasn't what happened, for a few reasons:


  1. Racing lines - It turned out the improved racing lines required for racing in 3D kept speeds higher everywhere, increasing dirty air, reducing acceleration and the scope for boost, DRS and PL to impact speeds.

  2. How testing was conducted - The issues are largely isolated to to the top levels (15-20) and it has nothing to do with not caring about those people, quite the opposite in fact. We had some of the best level 15-20 managers in the game testing it, and relied on their opinions. However, most testing took place in Quick Races (for technical / logistical reasons at the time) and none of the best managers identified any issues in this format, because QR masked them. Beyond that, the races that ran in other formats weren't competitive enough for them to notice (the spread of skill hid the spread of performance).

  3. Changes to car animations in 3D - Some changes to how cars were animated were required to operate in 3D space, but these weren't fundamentally physics changes, more visual / front-end stuff. These changes exacerbated the problems and weren't as smooth as they could have been in the builds prior to 4.026 / 4.032.



In summary, we didn't expect as many surprises as we got with regards to racing and neither did the higher level managers we consulted on the update. Despite us relying heavily on input from exactly the people who are claiming to feel ignored now, nobody identified the problem. Sometimes it's the process to blame, not the people. So, we've completely revised our process for testing updates and developed totally new in-house tools that allow us to test more scenarios more rapidly. We want to avoid a repeat of the surprises this update brought in future.

What has to be made absolutely clear is that we never, ever intended to leave you behind with this update or for any of you to feel that way. It's really bothered me that the perception of that has gone on for as long as it has, and we haven't been able to refute it with gameplay updates. However, the good news is that work starts now.

The release of 4.026 / 4.032 is finally the solid foundation we needed in place to build gameplay updates on. Going forwards, the changes we will be making will be about restoring balance and adding depth in the areas you want it. You were never left behind, and you're ultimately the focal point of everything we're doing. The biggest improvements in the game will be at the top end over the months ahead. I really appreciate your patience, especially when negative speculation seems believable. I can imagine exactly how it looks from where you are, but reality is far more complicated.

This is how I view the current situation. I don't talk about it too much at the moment, because you need updates. I did a lot of talking just after 3D came out and felt more stupid by the week as our hands were tied by stability patches. I want to back words up with action now and I'm doing my best to get these updates to you. I have even thrown a big chunk of my own money in to the company in order to hire more developers to make this happen faster.

Edit: P.S. The next update that is already WIP will be another big improvement like 4.026/4.032, including more scale-corrected tracks, massive performance improvements and 2D improvements so the cars will go through/under tunnels again (since you mentioned that). Beyond that, it's all gameplay updates.
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medal 5266
3 years 151 days ago
José
Interesting you say that, currently 3D is being used by 7/10 active players. Share with me your data!



Then the 3/10 players who play in 2D should be able to see how the car looks in 2D view. I appreciate the work you guys do to improve the game and fix bugs
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medal 5538 CEO & CTO
3 years 151 days ago
To answer the original suggestion, it's a valid point. I'll see what we can do to integrate this in to the livery editor.
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medal 5056
3 years 151 days ago
Thanks for the update Jack, it was very helpful, just wondering, Do you guys have an idea or estimate of when the next update will come out?
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medal 5100
3 years 151 days ago

Jack
a community that is, on the whole, being quite hostile towards him. 


Ask yourself why. 
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medal 5266
3 years 151 days ago

Jack
This is probably the wrong thread to put this in, because it's quite off-topic, but the thread has already derailed. I had to respond to this.

Rhys
I agree 3D us nice... But I can never use it. New active players will use it (as it is default) but the most active (multiple accounts, racing daily, entering tournaments)... Can never use it if they want to race at their true pace. iGP is in a hard position where legendary players, people I've races with and against, feel excluded... While we get a viewer with cars going over tunnels and hoardings, new players, who I accept are 70% per cent of your playerbase, get automatic timing, the ability to see their livery as they made it (as opposed to mine, which is bleached somehow ?) what was mentioned before and more... While I applaud many changes made recently (especially the 4.026/4.032 update, at least on paper) it's things like this that make older players feel disvalued and move on, as the game moves from a niche management game into a commercialised race game. Just please, remember that we existed before 3D ❤️

Don't read too much in to posts from José or anyone else. He's frustrated after months of trying to appease a community that is, on the whole, being quite hostile towards him. One person determines our priorities (me!) and I've not forgotten you, at all. This is all going to come full circle and benefit you the most in the end. I expected to be able to show you what we're going to do with this new platform much sooner, and to already have some gameplay updates out by now, but 3D was a huge technical challenge that put more obstalces in front of us than we had anticipated. Only now are we able to turn our focus to gameplay.

With the benefit of hindsight, all "changes" to racing since 3D were just unintended consequences of changing the circuits. We made no changes to Boost, DRS, overtaking or physics. In other words, it was reasonable to expect that gameplay, which everyone was universally happy with prior to the update, would remain fundamentally consistent. Unfortunately, that wasn't what happened, for a few reasons:


  1. Racing lines - It turned out the improved racing lines required for racing in 3D kept speeds higher everywhere, increasing dirty air, reducing acceleration and the scope for boost, DRS and PL to impact speeds.

  2. How testing was conducted - The issues are largely isolated to to the top levels (15-20) and it has nothing to do with not caring about those people, quite the opposite in fact. We had some of the best level 15-20 managers in the game testing it, and relied on their opinions. However, most testing took place in Quick Races (for technical / logistical reasons at the time) and none of the best managers identified any issues in this format, because QR masked them. Beyond that, the races that ran in other formats weren't competitive enough for them to notice (the spread of skill hid the spread of performance).

  3. Changes to car animations in 3D - Some changes to how cars were animated were required to operate in 3D space, but these weren't fundamentally physics changes, more visual / front-end stuff. These changes exacerbated the problems and weren't as smooth as they could have been in the builds prior to 4.026 / 4.032.



In summary, we didn't expect as many surprises as we got with regards to racing and neither did the higher level managers we consulted on the update. Despite us relying heavily on input from exactly the people who are claiming to feel ignored now, nobody identified the problem. Sometimes it's the process to blame, not the people. So, we've completely revised our process for testing updates and developed totally new in-house tools that allow us to test more scenarios more rapidly. We want to avoid a repeat of the surprises this update brought in future.

What has to be made absolutely clear is that we never, ever intended to leave you behind with this update or for any of you to feel that way. It's really bothered me that the perception of that has gone on for as long as it has, and we haven't been able to refute it with gameplay updates. However, the good news is that work starts now.

The release of 4.026 / 4.032 is finally the solid foundation we needed in place to build gameplay updates on. Going forwards, the changes we will be making will be about restoring balance and adding depth in the areas you want it. You were never left behind, and you're ultimately the focal point of everything we're doing. The biggest improvements in the game will be at the top end over the months ahead. I really appreciate your patience, especially when negative speculation seems believable. I can imagine exactly how it looks from where you are, but reality is far more complicated.

This is how I view the current situation. I don't talk about it too much at the moment, because you need updates. I did a lot of talking just after 3D came out and felt more stupid by the week as our hands were tied by stability patches. I want to back words up with action now and I'm doing my best to get these updates to you. I have even thrown a big chunk of my own money in to the company in order to hire more developers to make this happen faster.

Edit: P.S. The next update that is already WIP will be another big improvement like 4.026/4.032, including more scale-corrected tracks, massive performance improvements and 2D improvements so the cars will go through/under tunnels again (since you mentioned that). Beyond that, it's all gameplay updates.


Thanks for making updates Jack. Sometimes things don’t work out as intended and it’s fine as your game is still one of the best on the App Store 
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