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Forums > Global Forums (English) > Help & Support

Unresolved
Qualifying Nightmare

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Jambu Aqil medal 5000
4 years 215 days ago
This is unexpectedly a long good post
I'm listening. And hopefully team IGP listening here too and gave us some clarification
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Lucas Senna medal 5000
4 years 215 days ago
yesterday I researched 10 leagues.  including mine.  Just look at all 2 teams always stay in the last places of the tires they choose in the latest GPS ( S or SS ).  just look at Singapure,Japan, Brazil, Dubai which is clear.  qualy is predefined by ID just like in the quick race or ID When you enter in league...I have many prints, many league, always happen this, 2 teams are the last of the tire they choose....I have prints of 10 top leagues, if the programmers want to look that prove that the grid is pre-defined and there is nothing random
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Gian Michele Pisanu medal 5000
4 years 215 days ago

Lucas
yesterday I researched 10 leagues.  including mine.  Just look at all 2 teams always stay in the last places of the tires they choose in the latest GPS ( S or SS ).  just look at Singapure,Japan, Brazil, Dubai which is clear.  qualy is predefined by ID just like in the quick race or ID When you enter in league...I have many prints, many league, always happen this, 2 teams are the last of the tire they choose....I have prints of 10 top leagues, if the programmers want to look that prove that the grid is pre-defined and there is nothing random


I too, in the past, have taken the trouble to study other competitive championships besides my own, and I've always seen the same things happen, apart from very rare exceptions (at most one race in a whole championship). I believe that by now it is completely established that when the development of the top4 is complete, those who are ahead in the rankings start constantly behind. Seeing the level of managers who expressed their opinions in this thread, I believe that we cannot talk about conspiracy theories. I've heard someone say it and I've done another very very interesting research: those who say it, don't take part in competitive championships and if they participate, they don't get good results.

Paolo
This is the most important thread ever in the forum. Qualifying are the real problem of the game, together with the pit stops where some people lose 2 seconds nonsense for waiting the car ahead.
I can understand the purpose of levelling as much as possible the game, to let everyone the chance to win, but it's unfair. Everyone should be at the same level or, if there are hidden skills for the qualify, we need to know them, clearly. It happens often to get stuck in 20th, 25th position and the races go away. Now I use M tyres almost in every race in the first stint (where I can with the temperature), because I got frustrated too many times because of a bad qualify, at least I can't complain if I know I start in one of the last positions anyway :) 
The best thing would be doing a flying lap 8 minutes before the race, like having a real qualifying, but I guess it is impossible to realize :D


It would be great to be able to do even one lap, actively following it, but I think it is difficult to achieve immediately. In my opinion the simplest thing to do would be to decrease the number of races, so that the basic values of the skills at the beginning of the season also decrease, so that the balance of development can be influential for a greater number of races. Then if in the last races, as you say, you want to level to please everyone, I understand it perfectly. But these races cannot be the majority, otherwise the competition loses interest.



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John Doe medal 4964
4 years 215 days ago
After knowing that a car with 46 points less than another, was able to make the pole and the other qualifying out of the top 10 I knew clearly that something in the game is not right .. adding circuits is something fantastic, but if you do not fix  Car development and qualys ... 👎🏻
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Gary Collyer medal 5114
4 years 215 days ago

Seeing the level of managers who expressed their opinions in this thread, I believe that we cannot talk about conspiracy theories. I've heard someone say it and I've done another very very interesting research: those who say it, don't take part in competitive championships and if they participate, they don't get good results.




are you talking about me?
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Gian Michele Pisanu medal 5000
4 years 215 days ago

Gary

Seeing the level of managers who expressed their opinions in this thread, I believe that we cannot talk about conspiracy theories. I've heard someone say it and I've done another very very interesting research: those who say it, don't take part in competitive championships and if they participate, they don't get good results.




are you talking about me?


Absolutely not, Gary! Also because we think the same way, even if I don't have the experience that you have to be able to judge if this problem is increased in the case of older accounts.

Maybe I explained myself wrong, so I apologize and make it clearer. In this thread it is clear that there are many good level managers who think the same way and who have found the same data. I happened to talk to some managers who think we are conspiracists, I was referring to them!
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Pegatas Team medal 5000
4 years 215 days ago

It would be great to be able to do even one lap, actively following it, but I think it is difficult to achieve immediately. In my opinion the simplest thing to do would be to decrease the number of races, so that the basic values of the skills at the beginning of the season also decrease, so that the balance of development can be influential for a greater number of races. Then if in the last races, as you say, you want to level to please everyone, I understand it perfectly. But these races cannot be the majority, otherwise the competition loses interest.





I agree in part with you Gian, but I don't think it is necessary to reduce the number of races. You may not need to apply the "formula" 2.5 x number of races to achieve the values in each attribute.
You could enter the formula 1 x 19 or the races that are in the championship (17, 18 ...) and thus start with lower values.


Even so, and although it is more difficult to achieve, I think that the idea of being able to participate actively in the qualy I think would be a real success to considerably improve the game.
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Gian Michele Pisanu medal 5000
4 years 215 days ago
Osgano


It would be great to be able to do even one lap, actively following it, but I think it is difficult to achieve immediately. In my opinion the simplest thing to do would be to decrease the number of races, so that the basic values of the skills at the beginning of the season also decrease, so that the balance of development can be influential for a greater number of races. Then if in the last races, as you say, you want to level to please everyone, I understand it perfectly. But these races cannot be the majority, otherwise the competition loses interest.





I agree in part with you Gian, but I don't think it is necessary to reduce the number of races. You may not need to apply the "formula" 2.5 x number of runs to achieve the values in each attribute.
The 1 x 19 formula or the races that are to start with lower values could be applied.

Even so, and although it is more difficult to achieve, I think that the idea of being able to participate actively in the qualy I think would be a real success to considerably improve the game.


I agree that there may be better solutions than I said.  I just think that giving us the possibility to decrease the number of races is the easiest and fastest way to make the problem less important. Then if in the future it will be solved at the base, logically it will be even more welcome on our part.

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Gary Collyer medal 5114
4 years 215 days ago (Last edited by Gary Collyer 4 years 214 days ago)
Lol yes I misunderstood.

There’s definitely something  more wrong with my older accounts than newer ones, also the problem is much worse when running the number 1 & 2 car numbers with the driver who has 1 doing much worse than teammate with number 2, you do much better with other numbers, even if you didn’t win champ previous season but the guy that won occasionally gets bumped down to numbers 23,24 approx, the team that finished 2nd then gets the number 1 & 2 and suffers much worse qualifying, I’m running some testing with a closed league with equal cars engines tyres drivers, level 18-20 teams some new gen some old generation from before 2014 and noticed these things so far over last few weeks.
Each season performance drops or increases depending if you are running number 1&2 or other car numbers for each season.
The level 20 old generation team driver who had car number 1 qualified in last 3 positions on grid at almost every race bar two in whole season.
But next season without the car number 1 had better qualifying.
The level 19 new gen team’s driver on left of screen dominated qualifying season 1, but in season 2 now running car number 1 has now 3rd worst qualifying and is getting well beaten by his teammate running number 2 car.
But the difference is smaller with a new gen team (mine are 2018) compared to my 2012 teams.

if you switch drivers round from number 1 to number 2 (2 car teams), the guy running number 1 will start doing worse.
But this driver switching doesn’t seem to make as much difference when you are running numbers that are not 1 & 2 etc but does still effect some teams especially my 2012 level 20 teams.

This problem with running Number 1 & 2 (2-car team) is not a new thing either as I’ve known this for about 5-6 years.
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John Doe medal 5000
4 years 214 days ago
It now seems clear to me that in the second part of the season top of the rankings is two tenths of a second slower than the best qualifying lap and it is so systematic that I find any mention of randomness ridiculous. I also noticed that at this stage all managers who have zero or few points start first and this makes it a nightmare to compete for those who are fighting for the championship. Unfortunately, these qualifications are a block to managers' creativity about strategies because they induce everyone to start with as much gasoline as possible making the races a unique train and the pits a tragedy . It will be inevitable that so many managers will leave if things continue to be as they are now
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Lucas Senna medal 5000
4 years 214 days ago (Last edited by Lucas Senna 4 years 214 days ago)
I wanted to show in the group of moderators and programmers today the prints and all the research I did showing exactly what I described of the predefined grids and with 3 to 4 riders always dropping in last of their tire of choice and was ignored in both the group and the private.  They did not talk about it and it was completely ignored, as if this very serious mistake meant nothing in the game or needed to be urgently watched and fixed.  It gets very complicated like this, with no return...In private I could not return too unfortunately
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Thiago Vidal medal 5000
4 years 214 days ago
This is a real problem, many managers I know, especially one in my league has this problem (he has the oldest account in the league), where on the last few races he gets outqualified even by soft runners on SS with a fresh engine... And I myself have suffered from this issue in other leagues where I had an older account and qualifying was always ridiculously bad in the equal cars part of the season.
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Lucas Senna medal 5000
4 years 214 days ago



Driver F. De Oliveira - team Máquina do Mal  _  most of times last of his tyre choice

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Team Catterham also affected

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Pilot Santana...
This is an example of my driver, when I tried to change his seat position, look what happened:


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I have screenshots of more than 10 leagues, yes it is somehow generating bad grids for 3 or 4 drivers.

You can check the same issue in your leagues too, you'll find a team that's affected.
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Νικψ Mαииα medal 5000
4 years 212 days ago
Ragazzi, ho lo stesso problema, anche se ho l'auto più sviluppata, nelle ultime 3-4 gare, ho iniziato sempre nell'ultima griglia. Spero che verrà risolto il prima possibile.
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Kevin Bissell medal 5002 Super Mod
4 years 211 days ago
Hi Niky.
Please only post in English on the English forum. Thanks.

For the benefit of those who don't speak Italian, Google translates your post to...
Guys, I have the same problem, even if I have the most developed car, in the last 3-4 races, I always started in the last grid. I hope it will be resolved as soon as possible.
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Jason Chen medal 5000
4 years 211 days ago
If iGP favors younger teams, that may explain why my newer accounts often dominate the league they are in, despite the competition having high level drivers...
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Jamie R medal 5000
4 years 211 days ago
I have always thought that there were some odd things going on. For example, and I think it was mentioned in the post already that drivers with higher experience are more often than not slower than drivers with lower experience. 

I wonder also if there is some type of further "hidden" balancing in place for younger teams. As Jason suggests giving them an edge.
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Jack Basford medal 5145 CEO & CTO
4 years 201 days ago (Last edited by Jack Basford 4 years 201 days ago)
This thread was brought to my attention by José (community manager). I haven't read it, because I got the gist of it pretty quickly when I saw the link between older/younger teams. The main reason I didn't read through it is there wasn't really anything else I needed to know. When you get down to the level of thousandths of a second deciding results, I find it entirely plausible, that something like this could show up as a pattern. I'll make sure we look in to this because you might be on to something. I will explain why at the end, but first a disclaimer and clarification:

I don't work on the simulation of the races or qualifying, so I can only talk from a slightly more informed perspective than anyone else here, and many of you actually have way more data on the simulation than I do. I spend most of my time working on UI stuff and managing the team. I can tell you with total confidence that any effect like this is not by design. Let's make that absolutely clear. Any accusation that we've built in canned artificial effects designed to balance the game or something are simply wrong.

That said, here's why I think there might be something to this... the age of the team has a direct correlation to the numerical ID of the team. I also know that cars run qualifying in iGP in a particular format - one after another. It's possible that the qualifying order is determined by the team ID, and that in leagues where thousandths of a seconds count, this order may be impacting the qualifying performance in a marginal way. For example, perhaps the track is "rubbering in" as each lap is completed, giving those that run later a slight edge. Because this order may be determined by team ID, it could consistently show up in a pattern relating to team age, exactly as described.

I will run this hypothesis past the sim developers and see what they think, and whether there is something we can do about it, before getting back to you. For now, I just wanted to share my thoughts and that there are simulation based explanations for this behaviour, if it is happening. It's definitely not something canned or artificial outside of a simulation, because we don't have anything like that in the system.
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Alessandro Bonifacivs medal 5000
4 years 201 days ago
Jack, I really appreciate your answer here and in my thread even if I am a bit disappointed because of that situation. 
Excuse me if I paste the message I wrote before your reply in the other thread here in order to share my thought:
"This message is mainly for Jack Basford: I have nothing against you but if I have to talk with someone of the developers It's You I know.
After seeing the same thing every-single-day from a while I have a direct question for You: why is the qualifying scripted? We don't need to be a scientist to see that something is wrong with the actual system. I don't speak about "It could be better": why lie to the entire community that loves this game? You could tell us peacefully "there is a system that acts like a balance of performance or it depends on your previous results" or "we want that the older account are dismissed in order to promote new subscriptions and - why not - that tokens are bought. 
If not so, It would not cost nothing to admit "we don't know how the code works" but - please - do not say that the qualifying is random because this offends our intelligence. Also you are ignoring the community requests to change it. 
So, probably is not important for You, but at the end of the current seasion in my league I'll leave the game because of that. Loved It but I feel teased and if I have to be teased I'll start to play slot machines.
Look at what I'm talking about: 

https://igpmanager.com/forum-thread/27703

I hope You will continue having success with iGP but do not neglet the community.  
Sorry for this message but this ruined one of the best online games."
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Lucas Senna medal 5000
4 years 201 days ago (Last edited by Lucas Senna 4 years 201 days ago)
sorry but this does not happen only with old IDs, since I researched and print here, and occurs with new accounts too, there are always 2 teams defined per league.  How is being defined who is harmed that they should check.  What is certain is that the current qualyfing system is in trouble, defining unfair grids.  It would be very simple to solve, just give the manager the opportunity to make this qualifying lap or do the grid definition for the 5 laps we have. PLX JUST SEE ALL LEAGUES, ALWAYS HAVE 2 TEAMS WITH BAD GRIDS IN LAST RACES, ALWAYS THIS TEAMS in last of the chosen tire , DONT HAPPEN ONLY OLD ID.
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