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About random events

We need random events such as talking to driver,telling the strategies by radio mic,crashes among cars,time penalty...

55.75% (63)
Yes
44.25% (50)
No
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medal 5000
4 years 41 days ago

Bastian
Dave

Bastian

Dave

Patrick
Crashes, engine failures, penalty of any kind, SC, red flag, etc aren't random, but a consequence of some other event (overpushing driver, low reliability, heavy rain, ect)



And that is what we should have. Make the use of extra speed, especially on worn tyres or adverse conditions, carry a level of risk. At present there is simply not enough of that in iGP. It's too 'gamey' at the moment and if you seriously want an experience that reflects, in any way, the thrills of motorsports you need the spills as well. Not randomly but in accordance with the laws of physics as applicable to the sport. Anything less is a disservice to motor racing and merely just another silly racing videogame. 


There is just one law of physic in racing. A lack of space at the start of the race. 

All other crashes are accidents which are based on human or technical failure and would need a penalty system, which is impossible to implement. Just renember the  Vettel Hamilton incident in Canada, some poeple still argue that the penalty was fair while other say it was a race accident. Whats absolutely clear, is that vettel pushed too hard. How do you want to solve such issues with code?
Without a penalty and nothing to lose there are way too many players destroying other players races,  like kevin explained above. And would lead to a lot of anger. Spinning off the track without crashing is another story, but is somehow already implemented, when a driver is doing a mistake,  you can observe that often especially at the start 



You clearly don't understand physics. When a car corners it relies on 'grip', without it the car slides, if the speed is not reduced or traction increased in some way the driver loses control this, is simple physics. Sometimes the driver regains control before consequences become too severe,  on other occasions the car either leaves the track or collides with another car, what happens then is also subject to physical laws. The grip envelope of a cornering car is basic physics, yes mechanical failure and/or human error can play a part, but that is an integral part of the sport. If you don't like that, you don't like the sport. You say there will need to be penalties...there are many offs, collisions and crashes that are unpenalised. Why? Because they are racing incidents. You seem to show a lack of basic understanding of what motorsport is. 

You really don't understand cause and effect. The physics you are talking about are the effect. The cause is a driver pushing too hard or having a wrong strategy.

In both cases someone is responsible for it. Since we manage the whole Team, it is the Player in our case. 
 
I said we would need a penalty system not every crash must be penalized, but someone has to decide about that.
How are these guys called? Yes Stewards, so why are they there at every track? I Think you don't understand Motorsport:)



At present 'players' break the laws of physics in iGP. It is simply not possible to go as fast as the cars will go under boost on worn tyres without losing grip. Now to the basic understanding of motorsport...do you of Mr Thomas think that a driver knows the exact maximum speed to enter a corner without either losing grip, as per the laws of physics or losing ground on his opponents? Approximately, yes, but as the parameters of the car, the tyre and the surface change constantly any approximation is just that an educated guess. Often they get it slightly wrong and this is corrected for and if no-one else is around the incident passes without major consequences. Sometimes two drivers, on the edge of grip touch and this is a racing incident. Obviously the chances of such a collision go up when tyres are worn, drivers are pushing and other factors come into play, but that is racing. Unfortunately not in iGP.

As to the penalty system, why would we need it. iGP isn't going to give us a 'crash into opponents button' as managers we can simply not set out such a strategy, any attempt would result in our cars spinning off into the armco most of the time. Be sensible, think about it.
Of course, if you prefer a neutered sanitised version of motor racing where nobody ever spins off then don't bother, just stick with the argument you are putting forward. 
md-quotelink
medal 4929
4 years 41 days ago

Dave

Bastian
Dave

Bastian

Dave

Patrick
Crashes, engine failures, penalty of any kind, SC, red flag, etc aren't random, but a consequence of some other event (overpushing driver, low reliability, heavy rain, ect)



And that is what we should have. Make the use of extra speed, especially on worn tyres or adverse conditions, carry a level of risk. At present there is simply not enough of that in iGP. It's too 'gamey' at the moment and if you seriously want an experience that reflects, in any way, the thrills of motorsports you need the spills as well. Not randomly but in accordance with the laws of physics as applicable to the sport. Anything less is a disservice to motor racing and merely just another silly racing videogame. 


There is just one law of physic in racing. A lack of space at the start of the race. 

All other crashes are accidents which are based on human or technical failure and would need a penalty system, which is impossible to implement. Just renember the  Vettel Hamilton incident in Canada, some poeple still argue that the penalty was fair while other say it was a race accident. Whats absolutely clear, is that vettel pushed too hard. How do you want to solve such issues with code?
Without a penalty and nothing to lose there are way too many players destroying other players races,  like kevin explained above. And would lead to a lot of anger. Spinning off the track without crashing is another story, but is somehow already implemented, when a driver is doing a mistake,  you can observe that often especially at the start 



You clearly don't understand physics. When a car corners it relies on 'grip', without it the car slides, if the speed is not reduced or traction increased in some way the driver loses control this, is simple physics. Sometimes the driver regains control before consequences become too severe,  on other occasions the car either leaves the track or collides with another car, what happens then is also subject to physical laws. The grip envelope of a cornering car is basic physics, yes mechanical failure and/or human error can play a part, but that is an integral part of the sport. If you don't like that, you don't like the sport. You say there will need to be penalties...there are many offs, collisions and crashes that are unpenalised. Why? Because they are racing incidents. You seem to show a lack of basic understanding of what motorsport is. 

You really don't understand cause and effect. The physics you are talking about are the effect. The cause is a driver pushing too hard or having a wrong strategy.

In both cases someone is responsible for it. Since we manage the whole Team, it is the Player in our case. 
 
I said we would need a penalty system not every crash must be penalized, but someone has to decide about that.
How are these guys called? Yes Stewards, so why are they there at every track? I Think you don't understand Motorsport:)



At present 'players' break the laws of physics in iGP. It is simply not possible to go as fast as the cars will go under boost on worn tyres without losing grip. Now to the basic understanding of motorsport...do you of Mr Thomas think that a driver knows the exact maximum speed to enter a corner without either losing grip, as per the laws of physics or losing ground on his opponents? Approximately, yes, but as the parameters of the car, the tyre and the surface change constantly any approximation is just that an educated guess. Often they get it slightly wrong and this is corrected for and if no-one else is around the incident passes without major consequences. Sometimes two drivers, on the edge of grip touch and this is a racing incident. Obviously the chances of such a collision go up when tyres are worn, drivers are pushing and other factors come into play, but that is racing. Unfortunately not in iGP.

As to the penalty system, why would we need it. iGP isn't going to give us a 'crash into opponents button' as managers we can simply not set out such a strategy, any attempt would result in our cars spinning off into the armco most of the time. Be sensible, think about it.
Of course, if you prefer a neutered sanitised version of motor racing where nobody ever spins off then don't bother, just stick with the argument you are putting forward. 


Motorsport manager games have penalty sistems if driver make an incident (if x driver make a collision with y driver and y driver gets damage because of that collision, x driver gets drive through penalty). Some things are simply out of our control and we must accept it

md-quotelink
medal 5000
4 years 39 days ago (Last edited by Rohit Ganjam 4 years 39 days ago)
I suggest doing it somewhat similar to motorsport manager 3, which is another game I have played a lot..
The higher push levels increase chances of driver error like crashes or spin offs, but increase overall speed. This error rate increases heavily in adverse climate conditions like rain. One thing they did do was ensure that a driver error did not impact other drivers like a crash taking out other drivers. I'm sure this was done to ensure too many people weren't pissed off..
Also tire and engine wear as well as fuel consumption should increase when you push harder.. 
in MM3 they actually have different push levels for the engine and tyres.. maybe that's something to look at too..

Chances of errors or dnf can be linked to multiple things:

  • Driver focus and experience

  • Current weather conditions- wet and damp condition increase error rates heavily

  • Tyre wear - errors can increase once Tyre wear goes below a threshold

  • Tyre type used- driving in dry tyres in rain can increase chances of errors, not only reduce speed.

  • Car reliability and cooling- as car condition drops, chances of errors or dnf increase.

  • Driver push levels- higher push levels can increase error rates, lower push levels reduce the error rate


We can add more to this list, but this is just a start.
md-quotelink
medal 5002 Super Mod
4 years 39 days ago
Hi Rohit.

Yes, that sounds good and as I said in an earlier post I would welcome something along these lines because it is something that a manager can influence. I can take risks and balance the chance of a better result with the possibility of crashing or I play it safe. But if something like this were to be implemented, any accident or spin should only affect the manager responsible, because if someone else spinning were to ruin my race I would be very annoyed.

Where I have a problem is "random events" (as per the title of this thread) over which I have no control.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
4 years 39 days ago
Kevin
Hi Rohit.

Yes, that sounds good and as I said in an earlier post I would welcome something along these lines because it is something that a manager can influence. I can take risks and balance the chance of a better result with the possibility of crashing or I play it safe. But if something like this were to be implemented, any accident or spin should only affect the manager responsible, because if someone else spinning were to ruin my race I would be very annoyed.

Where I have a problem is "random events" (as per the title of this thread) over which I have no control.

Agreed completely. The problem here is the word "random". Our points are not truly random, but are still influenced by chance based on decisions taken (or not taken, when it should have been taken) by the manager




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medal 5000
4 years 38 days ago
Tyre behavior should be completely changed in order to take into account spinning and going off track. Maybe a driver's feedback could be implemented. Like a slider going up and down indicating confidence about grip. This should be based on how the driver senses the car depending at least on tyre temperature and tyre wear. One or more mental attribute of the driver may change the accuracy of the feedback. So that drivers with low attributes will give worse feedback than high level drivers.
If grip value is low the chances of spinning if you push too hard, including boost usage, are higher. So that, for example, if you use the boost when turning and the grip value is low you have high chances to spin and to go off track.
Doing like this would reduce randomness when the car spins. You push too hard when you have not enough tyres and despite your driver's feedback? You have high chances of going off track and it's your choice. 
md-quotelink
medal 5068
4 years 38 days ago
Guido
Tyre behavior should be completely changed in order to take into account spinning and going off track. Maybe a driver's feedback could be implemented. Like a slider going up and down indicating confidence about grip. This should be based on how the driver senses the car depending at least on tyre temperature and tyre wear. One or more mental attribute of the driver may change the accuracy of the feedback. So that drivers with low attributes will give worse feedback than high level drivers.
If grip value is low the chances of spinning if you push too hard, including boost usage, are higher. So that, for example, if you use the boost when turning and the grip value is low you have high chances to spin and to go off track.
Doing like this would reduce randomness when the car spins. You push too hard when you have not enough tyres and despite your driver's feedback? You have high chances of going off track and it's your choice. 


Agree with you☺☺
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medal 5002 Super Mod
4 years 38 days ago
Well you guys who wanted these things got what you asked for... A manager miscalculates fuel, runs out and coasts into the pits and triggers yellow flags and VSCs thus interfering with everybody else's race.

Do you still think it's a good idea?
md-quotelink
medal 5000
4 years 37 days ago

Kevin
Well you guys who wanted these things got what you asked for... A manager miscalculates fuel, runs out and coasts into the pits and triggers yellow flags and VSCs thus interfering with everybody else's race.

Do you still think it's a good idea?



It only comes out for like 2 seconds each time, doesn't do anything
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medal 4865 Moderator
4 years 37 days ago
If you're one of the few cars not getting DRS during a lap while so many others did and thus thrown back out of those few places that determine if you're in for a possible podium or not, that needed all those small details you had to do better than your competition to get into in the first place, then I doubt it'll be 'done nothing'.
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medal 5002 Super Mod
4 years 37 days ago
Just wait until you try to use boost to close a gap to gain DRS only to find your boost doesn't work because someone is out of fuel coasting down the pit lane miles from where your car is on the circuit. It costs you a DRS and in a competitive hard fought league that can be the difference between a podium and not finishing in the points... Then tell me it doesn't do anything.

Besides, I don't understand why a car in the pit lane gives rise to a full course yellow. At worse it should only be the sector where the pits are located.
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medal 5000
4 years 37 days ago
If we want to have yellow flag for fuel issues, the car that runs out of fuel should lost a lot of time going very slow and for a short distance (500m?). If I pit a lap before others hoping to get DRS and other cars run out of fuel during my out lap I have a huge disadvantage compared to the one of the car without fuel. Someone could chose to overcut using low fuel in order to force other cars to slow down. 
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medal 5000
4 years 37 days ago
The system of random DNF, crashing bolids and others, is undoubtedly interesting, but ...Only in the real formula 1. Or in computer games. In the same game, players reveal who is the best manager in a particular championship, all other more or less equal conditions. With the introduction of random car breakdowns, crashes and other malfunctions, immediately there will be a mass of questions and objections, such as why exactly my pilot lost the race, and not the opponent?In my opinion, at the moment there are no opportunities for introducing this randomness in the game, because there are no various parameters.  For example, there is no information on tire pressure in case of a puncture. Bolids on the track do not push, because here 2D graphics and cars can go 1 thousandth of each other. this is only part of the examples. Look at the recently released race managers, there are crashes, and departures from the track, and a lot of negativity in the address of developers, in this regard
md-quotelink
medal 4929
4 years 37 days ago

BoMo
The system of random DNF, crashing bolids and others, is undoubtedly interesting, but ...Only in the real formula 1. Or in computer games. In the same game, players reveal who is the best manager in a particular championship, all other more or less equal conditions. With the introduction of random car breakdowns, crashes and other malfunctions, immediately there will be a mass of questions and objections, such as why exactly my pilot lost the race, and not the opponent?In my opinion, at the moment there are no opportunities for introducing this randomness in the game, because there are no various parameters.  For example, there is no information on tire pressure in case of a puncture. Bolids on the track do not push, because here 2D graphics and cars can go 1 thousandth of each other. this is only part of the examples. Look at the recently released race managers, there are crashes, and departures from the track, and a lot of negativity in the address of developers, in this regard


How many times I need to tell you, CRASHES, FAILURES AND OTHER AREN'T RANDOM 

md-quotelink
medal 5002 Super Mod
4 years 37 days ago
Agreed, but the title of the thread is... "About random events" which is what people see when they view the thread from the list.

Anyway, regardless of whether incidents are truly randomised by the game engine or are triggered by some other manager's poor team management the end result for me is that they are random. I have no control or visibility over what that other manager is doing so can't anticipate the incident.

I said before, if the consequences of poor team management are limited to the manager who causes the incident I don't think anyone would complain. But when it ruins someone else's race... You only have to look at the feedback about other people running out of fuel and triggering yellow flags. Popular it most definitely is not (as Yoda would say LOL)
md-quotelink
medal 4865 Moderator
4 years 37 days ago
Patrick

How many times I need to tell you, CRASHES, FAILURES AND OTHER AREN'T RANDOM

They are in computer games as long as they are not set from the beginning due to the circumstances like the current retirements, and will still be for quite some time even though the capabilities to compute real time simulations are improving and the involved costs getting lower. It's just that with a certain control over the chances through manager decisions and the effects limited to the own team there might be an acceptable compromise between the strategists that are not interested in watching a lottery play out and those looking for more race action. But in the end it'll still be a virtual dice deciding and all you can do as manager at best is setting the number of sides in a given range.
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medal 5000
4 years 36 days ago

Patrick

BoMo
The system of random DNF, crashing bolids and others, is undoubtedly interesting, but ...Only in the real formula 1. Or in computer games. In the same game, players reveal who is the best manager in a particular championship, all other more or less equal conditions. With the introduction of random car breakdowns, crashes and other malfunctions, immediately there will be a mass of questions and objections, such as why exactly my pilot lost the race, and not the opponent?In my opinion, at the moment there are no opportunities for introducing this randomness in the game, because there are no various parameters.  For example, there is no information on tire pressure in case of a puncture. Bolids on the track do not push, because here 2D graphics and cars can go 1 thousandth of each other. this is only part of the examples. Look at the recently released race managers, there are crashes, and departures from the track, and a lot of negativity in the address of developers, in this regard


How many times I need to tell you, CRASHES, FAILURES AND OTHER AREN'T RANDOM 




I’m saying that at the moment there is no such possibility in the game. The game takes place in 2D mode. What kind of struggle wheel to wheel can we talk about? here you look at the race, and the cars ride on each other. to make what you propose, you must completely redo the game! and this is both long and costly.  And there are no guarantees that the new option will appeal to players. A massive turnover of players from the game will begin. If you want to play something like this, I can write the name of the game in private messages. It is not customary to advertise third-party games here. After playing that game an hour or so, you will begin to puke from it.so everything is disgustingly done there. no need to spoil this game!
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medal 5000
4 years 36 days ago

BoMo




If you want to play something like this, I can write the name of the game in private messages. It is not customary to advertise third-party games here. After playing that game an hour or so, you will begin to puke from it.so everything is disgustingly done there. no need to spoil this game!


If you are talking about mobile games I think I know which one you are talking about. I agree, the game sucks, that should only be a thing in console or maybe pc games where you are actually racing.

md-quotelink
medal 5000
4 years 35 days ago

Richard

BoMo




If you want to play something like this, I can write the name of the game in private messages. It is not customary to advertise third-party games here. After playing that game an hour or so, you will begin to puke from it.so everything is disgustingly done there. no need to spoil this game!


If you are talking about mobile games I think I know which one you are talking about. I agree, the game sucks, that should only be a thing in console or maybe pc games where you are actually racing.




Yes that's right. crashes, collisions and other cessation of struggle on the track should be in games on PC or console, in the genre of racing simulator. It is racing, not a manager.Because only in racing are you responsible for the behavior of the car, where to turn, the choice of the path, the speed of movement, etc.On which all situations with crashes, collisions, and others depend.In the case of this game, and this is a manager simulator, but not racing, then here you do not control essentially nothing. And all incidents on the track will be random.What will cause a lot of negativity and debate among players
md-quotelink
medal 5000
4 years 35 days ago


Frank
If you're one of the few cars not getting DRS during a lap while so many others did and thus thrown back out of those few places that determine if you're in for a possible podium or not, that needed all those small details you had to do better than your competition to get into in the first place, then I doubt it'll be 'done nothing'.



Ok, somehow have not noticed that so far. I see how that can make someone lose. 


md-quotelink

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