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We need to talk about HARDS

What should be done regarding the H/H strategy?

21.99% (73)
Equalise tyre strategies to work on all race lengths, so as to not advantage a particular strategy for the vast majority of race
60.24% (200)
Give League Hosts an option to force teams to use two tyre compounds during the race.
17.77% (59)
It's fine as it is, besides it's a free game, so relax bro!
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medal 5000
6 years 148 days ago
How about closing the wear rate between the tyres as suggested by dea male and adding the option (one of which must be chosen) 
1 no fuel stops and any tyre you like
2 refuelling but you must use two or possibly 3 (if other compounds are added) different compounds.

Currently in elite at 100% race length
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medal 4981 Moderator
6 years 148 days ago
I think those suggestions would be nice, independent of each other, as general setup choices for a league host.

In terms of tyres I support Dea Males suggestion as well. Additionally I'd like the car stat of tyre economy to have some more effect. But however I turn it I have a problem with it. Naturally how the car attribute system works the stat can only really have an effect on mid season and later races and that only if it matches the importance of the big 4 in terms of performance to make it a viable choice. I feel it's more something for a choice option of what type of car you want to develop in general.
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medal 5000
6 years 147 days ago
All this talk of 1 stop races, how long are your races? Like, 20 laps or something?

In my league I believe we run 100% race distance and you'll never catch anyone doing 1 stop. We're usually 3 or 4 stops, often all hards right enough but often managers will go a short stint on SS or soft and then hards the rest of the way.

For me, its too easy to pass in this game. In my 2nd or 3rd season I tried a 1-stop at Monaco, SS/H, thinking 'ho ho I'll have track position after everyone else pits'. Nope, I was a good 10 seconds a lap slower than everyone and finished many many many laps down. Whilst it can be marginally harder to pass at some tracks than others, basically you can still pass anywhere with a few blips of Kers at the right moment.
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medal 5000
6 years 147 days ago
idk what the 10 seconds slower comment has to do with it being easy to pass. If you're ten seconds slower on any track, whether it be in real life or a game, you're going to be overtaken.

And in my opinion the difficulty to overtake is fine if not a little too difficult. In iGP we tend to get trains of cars just waiting for drs to get overtakes done and I think this is terrible. Push levels are only used for tyre temps and better pace in clear air, but wouldn't it be good if they could also be more influential in overtakes too? It should be made a little easier to overtake in addition to the power of kers and drs (the drs' effect in Brazil in elite is pretty much perfect, it just brings you close and usually not enough to pass) being reduced. I think this would also contribute to the backmarker issue but anyway, this has nothing to do with the main suggestion about the "hards" issue so let's stick to the subject
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medal 5000
6 years 147 days ago
I used M & H in monaco last night expecting to get lapped. Last lap of the race the cars crawled around the track because I fuelled them one lap short
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medal 5000
6 years 147 days ago
racer
idk what the 10 seconds slower comment has to do with it being easy to pass. If you're ten seconds slower on any track, whether it be in real life or a game, you're going to be overtaken.

And in my opinion the difficulty to overtake is fine if not a little too difficult. In iGP we tend to get trains of cars just waiting for drs to get overtakes done and I think this is terrible. Push levels are only used for tyre temps and better pace in clear air, but wouldn't it be good if they could also be more influential in overtakes too? It should be made a little easier to overtake in addition to the power of kers and drs (the drs' effect in Brazil in elite is pretty much perfect, it just brings you close and usually not enough to pass) being reduced. I think this would also contribute to the backmarker issue but anyway, this has nothing to do with the main suggestion about the "hards" issue so let's stick to the subject



The 10 seconds thing is related to asking how long your races are - as I say, in my league it's 100% distance and we stop 3 or 4 times. Why? Because fueling for a 1 stop over that distance will make you 10 seconds a lap slower so many short stints are quicker, over that race distance. Now when I did that experiment in Monaco I obviously didn't know I would be THAT much slower, maybe a couple of seconds slower, but as Monaco is supposed to be so hard to pass I took the risk. As demonstrated at Monaco this year - you know, the real F1 this game is based on - cars were running several seconds off ultimate pace because they didn't want to stop BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PASS.


So please answer my actual first question, how long are your races if you're only stopping once? Cos in my experience, at 100% distance races, only an idiot would stop once when a 3 or 4 stop strategy is miles quicker.
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medal 5000 Super Mod
6 years 147 days ago
@Pete.
The most common race distances are 50% and 100%. Anyone complaining about H/H strategy is most likely competing in a 50% league. Even in 100% races Hard tyres are the way to go because they are relatively fast and their wear rate is extremely low.
One of the few races where H/H strategy does not work even at 50% race distance is Monaco. The reasons for this are... SS tyres are much faster, the twisty circuit allows higher than normal push on SS tyres without overheating them and the wear rate at Monaco for SS tyres is the lowest of all circuits. If overtaking at Monaco is made much more difficult then that will be another circuit to add to the list of circuits where Hards are the dominant tyre.
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medal 5000
6 years 147 days ago
The more comments I read, the more I realise that we need a bigger off-set between the tyres. It doesn't make sense that SS and H are roughly the same pace with the same fuel load and temp (which is what happened in Brazil last night when temps were 14*C). There needs to be at least a good chunk of laps where the Hards simply can't compete with the SS.

Another thing that has occurred to me, is why not bin the Mediums? Or bin the Hards, so Mediums are the hardest?
Medium tyres never get used, so they're just a drain on data. This might make it easier to have different wear rates across different race lengths as it's one less tyre to deal with.


P.S. Please note that I used HH last night and won, so it's not sour grapes ;)
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medal 5000
6 years 146 days ago
In our league we have banned the use of hard tires and it's very very funny now
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medal 5000
6 years 146 days ago
I assume the Mediums exist so that players that don't set up their race strategy beforehand are automatically disadvantaged. 
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medal 5000
6 years 146 days ago
Ron
I assume the Mediums exist so that players that don't set up their race strategy beforehand are automatically disadvantaged. 

That's a very good point Ron.



simone
In our league we have banned the use of hard tires and it's very very funny now

Funny in a good way? Are you getting some crazy strategies?



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medal 5000
6 years 146 days ago
yes, good way....
funny because there are more stint and players use differents strategies. Before it was S-H-H every race....now some player use S-S-S-S, other SS-S-S-S-SS...other SS-M-M and also S-S-M....so before it was very annoing...all player gone to pit at the same lap, with same strategy...now there are some driver with SS, some that have already done first pit, some no, etc etc....
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medal 5000
6 years 146 days ago
I am in a league with 2 compulsory tires and hard are always so cheat
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medal 5000
6 years 146 days ago
Simply slow the H tyre down the same amount that you slowed the M tyre. (if you can remember what you done to M)
That will put things back to the way they once where. S wins here, M wins there & H wins that. 
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medal 5000
6 years 143 days ago
Last nights opening round in Australia was 10*C.
Hard tyres were faster than the softs and super softs when on the same fuel load etc...
It makes sense that the Hards would be faster when the track temperatures are very hot 20*C+, but 10*C is supposed to be the optimum temperature for the softer tyres right?

Surely this isn't what the creators intended?
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medal 5000 Super Mod
6 years 143 days ago (edited 6 years 142 days ago)
Alexi. The hards were as fast as SS only when the SS became worn which is as Dea said earlier in this thread, the SS wear too quickly.
I experimented on the final stint, driver 1 on Softs for 10 laps the other on Hards for 9 laps. Because of the higher push on Hards I intentionally over fuelled driver 2 by 1 litre.
So driver 1 on fresh Softs, driver 2 on fresh Hards but carrying an extra litre of fuel. Both were lapping in near enough identical times because I was able to push much more on Hard tyres. So taking wear out of the equation the different compounds were about the same pace. The last lap the Hards were faster because the Softs were worn below 50%.
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medal 6181
6 years 143 days ago

simone
yes, good way....
funny because there are more stint and players use differents strategies. Before it was S-H-H every race....now some player use S-S-S-S, other SS-S-S-S-SS...other SS-M-M and also S-S-M....so before it was very annoing...all player gone to pit at the same lap, with same strategy...now there are some driver with SS, some that have already done first pit, some no, etc etc....



How about this rule: No same compound for each stint. That will diverse strategy greatly too.
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medal 5000
6 years 143 days ago
This may have already been suggested before: Is there any way or plans to change the cooling stat to have an impact on tyre temperatures(artificial I know, but it will essentially make it a top 5 group of stats and influence development and make more staff worthwhile in the long run) instead of the engine which everyone replaces every 2 races anyway, some even replace every race if they have the tokens or saved engines?


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medal 5000
6 years 139 days ago
In my league we have agreed upon banning Hards for the time being and a minimum of two compounds per race. Obviously requires everyone to behave themselves but it has certainly made for some more interesting racing and allows slight less developed cars to occasionally steal an advantage on better strategy.
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medal 5000
6 years 138 days ago (edited 6 years 133 days ago)
One option is, I think the operating window of all tyres should be changed, also matching the track tyre wear characteristics of course.
Running a race at 10C and putting the hard on, means u shouldn't be able to get that tyre upto any sort of temperature for a good few laps. And while those tyres are cold, you should be losing plenty of time to boot.
Another idea is, bring out more compounds, and the teams need to choose 2/3 compounds before lockout during practice, and then have to use both a prime and option in the race. Taking the idea from MM (Motorsport Manager), is making practice lap data more meaningful, so it should be giving u both Quali and Race % boost data depending on what program u choose to run, as well as % boost on the compound you using. So u might see someone focusing on doing qualifying runs on the softest compound for a race to improve their grid position, that kind of thing. It will shake the grids up alot more as well, instead of seeing 6 guys within the same tenth on the same compound kind of thing...
Edit:
I like Kevin’s idea of separate push levels per stint, to accommodate variable strats, and if prime and option compounds are brought in. Also, we need that advanced strat setting fixed for changeable conditions with better parameters and fix the bug where the game decides on its own to pit u in a live race, disregarding your settings.  All this to accommodate a player that cannot make a live race.
Some new ideas:
Keep push level bar for tyres, but tyres only.
Introduce another bar level for engine modes:Lean, Normal (Neutral), Rich.
This can help to keep tyres in temp range but u trying to save fuel for an underfuelled car etc.
Practice lap data should be more meaningful. Show the weather icon and temp next to the the lap that was done to show in what conditions the lap was done on. Also, even a temp gauge of the tyre feedback based on that run, since runs are done on neutral push. This should all be linked to the ‘knowledge’ stat of the driver. The higher, the more accurate the Tyre gauge feedback. If tyres are going to be reworked, then this can give a general idea of tyre and heat data heading into the race.
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