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We need to talk about HARDS

What should be done regarding the H/H strategy?

21.99% (73)	Equalise tyre strategies to work on all race lengths, so as to not advantage a particular strategy for the vast majority of race
60.24% (200)	Give League Hosts an option to force teams to use two tyre compounds during the race.
17.77% (59)	It's fine as it is, besides it's a free game, so relax bro!

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Alexi Vasiliou
7 years 64 days ago

Yes, agreed Alberto.
Mini-update please Jack!

p.s. Thanks for bringing the weather back.

Max Power
7 years 61 days ago

Something away from the H/H question. I would like to see the operating windows (water depth) for the W and I vary from track to track. For example tracks with a 'gripper' surface can run a slick for a bit longer than a smoother surface (or can switch from W back to I earlier etc). This will make it a bit more realustic than having the same changeover points at each venue

CEO & CTO
7 years 61 days ago

Sorry for the delay looking in to this, we've been doing a lot of other updates and are working hard on finishing the big updates like the new car and garage. I can tell you we will be turning some of our attention to this next week and testing some solutions.

My preferred route at this point is:

Reduce the range of wear between tyres

Scale tyre wear to race duration (so they will wear 4x as fast in a 25% race as a 100% one)

The first change is a relatively minor one, a good suggestion put forward by Dea Male near the start of this topic. Making conservative changes like that with tyres makes more sense, because when people say "there's only one strategy that works", what they usually mean is the tyres are ever so slightly balanced in favour of a certain strategy. Even the people who claim it's "totally" broken are usually only referring to a minor balancing issue, because it only has to be a little bit off balance and it will always go one way. The current tyre balance came in to effect a long time ago because everyone thought Super Softs were too overpowered. We didn't make a huge change, but now the consensus is Hards are overpowered.

The second change is something I've considered doing for a long time, but originally put off for fear it could be confusing to have the tyres behaving inconsistently across the game. However, it would as least allow us to build a consensus on tyres and really balance them in an exciting way without compromise.

The limitation of uniform tyre wear across all race durations is that if we change something to balance a 50% race, it throws 100% off and vice versa, and we can never really achieve consensus. While one league is happy another isn't all the time, and our efforts to balance the tyres are always compromised and complicated by the need to balance them to all race durations. This would be resolved by scaling wear rates to race duration.

So, I think by adjusting wear rates and scaling wear to the race duration we'll be able to create a much more interesting balance. If further tweaks are needed beyond that then they can be implemented as well.

Mike K
7 years 61 days ago

Jack

Sorry for the delay looking in to this, we've been doing a lot of other updates and are working hard on finishing the big updates like the new car and garage. I can tell you we will be turning some of our attention to this next week and testing some solutions.

My preferred route at this point is:

Reduce the range of wear between tyres

Scale tyre wear to race duration (so they will wear 4x as fast in a 25% race as a 100% one)

The first change is a relatively minor one, a good suggestion put forward by Dea Male near the start of this topic. Making conservative changes like that with tyres makes more sense, because when people say "there's only one strategy that works", what they usually mean is the tyres are ever so slightly balanced in favour of a certain strategy. Even the people who claim it's "totally" broken are usually only referring to a minor balancing issue, because it only has to be a little bit off balance and it will always go one way. The current tyre balance came in to effect a long time ago because everyone thought Super Softs were too overpowered. We didn't make a huge change, but now the consensus is Hards are overpowered.

The second change is something I've considered doing for a long time, but originally put off for fear it could be confusing to have the tyres behaving inconsistently across the game. However, it would as least allow us to build a consensus on tyres and really balance them in an exciting way without compromise.

The limitation of uniform tyre wear across all race durations is that if we change something to balance a 50% race, it throws 100% off and vice versa, and we can never really achieve consensus. While one league is happy another isn't all the time, and our efforts to balance the tyres are always compromised and complicated by the need to balance them to all race durations. This would be resolved by scaling wear rates to race duration.

So, I think by adjusting wear rates and scaling wear to the race duration we'll be able to create a much more interesting balance. If further tweaks are needed beyond that then they can be implemented as well.

The scaling of the tyres is a great idea!!!

Alexi Vasiliou
7 years 61 days ago

Thanks for the update Jack.
This is awesome news, I look forward to you and your teams conclusions.

L O L I T A
7 years 61 days ago

Jack

Sorry for the delay looking in to this, we've been doing a lot of other updates and are working hard on finishing the big updates like the new car and garage. I can tell you we will be turning some of our attention to this next week and testing some solutions.

My preferred route at this point is:

Reduce the range of wear between tyres

Scale tyre wear to race duration (so they will wear 4x as fast in a 25% race as a 100% one)

The first change is a relatively minor one, a good suggestion put forward by Dea Male near the start of this topic. Making conservative changes like that with tyres makes more sense, because when people say "there's only one strategy that works", what they usually mean is the tyres are ever so slightly balanced in favour of a certain strategy. Even the people who claim it's "totally" broken are usually only referring to a minor balancing issue, because it only has to be a little bit off balance and it will always go one way. The current tyre balance came in to effect a long time ago because everyone thought Super Softs were too overpowered. We didn't make a huge change, but now the consensus is Hards are overpowered.

The second change is something I've considered doing for a long time, but originally put off for fear it could be confusing to have the tyres behaving inconsistently across the game. However, it would as least allow us to build a consensus on tyres and really balance them in an exciting way without compromise.

The limitation of uniform tyre wear across all race durations is that if we change something to balance a 50% race, it throws 100% off and vice versa, and we can never really achieve consensus. While one league is happy another isn't all the time, and our efforts to balance the tyres are always compromised and complicated by the need to balance them to all race durations. This would be resolved by scaling wear rates to race duration.

So, I think by adjusting wear rates and scaling wear to the race duration we'll be able to create a much more interesting balance. If further tweaks are needed beyond that then they can be implemented as well.

AWESOME news! Thank you!

Mar Gar
7 years 61 days ago

Jack

Sorry for the delay looking in to this, we've been doing a lot of other updates and are working hard on finishing the big updates like the new car and garage. I can tell you we will be turning some of our attention to this next week and testing some solutions.

My preferred route at this point is:

Reduce the range of wear between tyres

Scale tyre wear to race duration (so they will wear 4x as fast in a 25% race as a 100% one)

The first change is a relatively minor one, a good suggestion put forward by Dea Male near the start of this topic. Making conservative changes like that with tyres makes more sense, because when people say "there's only one strategy that works", what they usually mean is the tyres are ever so slightly balanced in favour of a certain strategy. Even the people who claim it's "totally" broken are usually only referring to a minor balancing issue, because it only has to be a little bit off balance and it will always go one way. The current tyre balance came in to effect a long time ago because everyone thought Super Softs were too overpowered. We didn't make a huge change, but now the consensus is Hards are overpowered.

The second change is something I've considered doing for a long time, but originally put off for fear it could be confusing to have the tyres behaving inconsistently across the game. However, it would as least allow us to build a consensus on tyres and really balance them in an exciting way without compromise.

The limitation of uniform tyre wear across all race durations is that if we change something to balance a 50% race, it throws 100% off and vice versa, and we can never really achieve consensus. While one league is happy another isn't all the time, and our efforts to balance the tyres are always compromised and complicated by the need to balance them to all race durations. This would be resolved by scaling wear rates to race duration.

So, I think by adjusting wear rates and scaling wear to the race duration we'll be able to create a much more interesting balance. If further tweaks are needed beyond that then they can be implemented as well.

Thanks for the update Jack

Lek Ferrari
7 years 61 days ago

Jack, thanks for the update!

By the way, think about the idea of being able to configure the league to use 2 tire compounds, because many already do this manually, but it always causes controversy because the screen that shows the compounds during the race has a bug and does not always show all the tires used.

Some leagues still use Excel controls parallel to the game to bring more competitiveness, like mine, and this automated rule in the system would help a lot.

Iwan Aditiarsa
7 years 60 days ago

Jack

Sorry for the delay looking in to this, we've been doing a lot of other updates and are working hard on finishing the big updates like the new car and garage. I can tell you we will be turning some of our attention to this next week and testing some solutions.

My preferred route at this point is:

Reduce the range of wear between tyres

Scale tyre wear to race duration (so they will wear 4x as fast in a 25% race as a 100% one)

The first change is a relatively minor one, a good suggestion put forward by Dea Male near the start of this topic. Making conservative changes like that with tyres makes more sense, because when people say "there's only one strategy that works", what they usually mean is the tyres are ever so slightly balanced in favour of a certain strategy. Even the people who claim it's "totally" broken are usually only referring to a minor balancing issue, because it only has to be a little bit off balance and it will always go one way. The current tyre balance came in to effect a long time ago because everyone thought Super Softs were too overpowered. We didn't make a huge change, but now the consensus is Hards are overpowered.

The second change is something I've considered doing for a long time, but originally put off for fear it could be confusing to have the tyres behaving inconsistently across the game. However, it would as least allow us to build a consensus on tyres and really balance them in an exciting way without compromise.

The limitation of uniform tyre wear across all race durations is that if we change something to balance a 50% race, it throws 100% off and vice versa, and we can never really achieve consensus. While one league is happy another isn't all the time, and our efforts to balance the tyres are always compromised and complicated by the need to balance them to all race durations. This would be resolved by scaling wear rates to race duration.

So, I think by adjusting wear rates and scaling wear to the race duration we'll be able to create a much more interesting balance. If further tweaks are needed beyond that then they can be implemented as well.

Regarding scaling wear rate to race duration, I disagree if pit stop time not be scaled either, thus, creating inconsistent result to 100% race.

Alexi Vasiliou
7 years 60 days ago (edited 7 years 59 days ago)

Alan

By the way, think about the idea of being able to configure the league to use 2 tire compounds, because many already do this manually.

Good point Alan!

Jack, most of the votes are for leagues to have an option to force a 2 tyre compound race. Is this something you're looking in to, or does it have too many issues (push levels etc...) to be viable?

Saturday 10am.
We're at 200 votes in total!

James Greer
7 years 59 days ago

14°C 15 laps M on push level 3 is slower than 15 laps H on push level 4.
H uses 1 litre extra fuel and uses up 2 points more of the drivers health.

Jason Chen
7 years 59 days ago

Alexi

Alan

By the way, think about the idea of being able to configure the league to use 2 tire compounds, because many already do this manually.

Good point Alan!

Jack, most of the votes are for leagues to have an option to force a 2 tyre compound race. Is this something you're looking in to, or does it have too many issues (push levels etc...) to be viable?

Saturday 10am.
We're at 200 votes in total!

This puts managers that don't manage in live race at a terrible disadvantage, unless all managers in a league are live managing.

Jon Mushrow
7 years 59 days ago

James

14°C 15 laps M on push level 3 is slower than 15 laps H on push level 4.
H uses 1 litre extra fuel and uses up 2 points more of the drivers health.

Surely either way isn't the quickest as tyres would be in the red zone anyway

Richard Rodríguez
7 years 58 days ago

I need the SuperHard compound at least for Malaysia, it's too hot for Hard rubber.

Leandro Rembold
7 years 58 days ago

Another option would be a maximum number of each type of dry tire for the whole season.
15 SS
15 S
15 M
15 H

igra formula
7 years 58 days ago

Jon

James

14°C 15 laps M on push level 3 is slower than 15 laps H on push level 4.
H uses 1 litre extra fuel and uses up 2 points more of the drivers health.

Surely either way isn't the quickest as tyres would be in the red zone anyway

If you dont manage the push levels it surely will be in the red zone and not quickest ;]

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
7 years 58 days ago

Leandro

Another option would be a maximum number of each type of dry tire for the whole season.
15 SS
15 S
15 M
15 H

That's an interesting idea. Good suggestion but numbers would need to be changed. 100% race distance they'd run out of tyres half way through the season.

James Greer
7 years 58 days ago (edited 7 years 58 days ago)

Jon

James

14°C 15 laps M on push level 3 is slower than 15 laps H on push level 4.
H uses 1 litre extra fuel and uses up 2 points more of the drivers health.

Surely either way isn't the quickest as tyres would be in the red zone anyway

Your assumption would be wrong.

Highlighted lap was where M had the faster lap time. Lap 36 M & H had Identical lap times.

Not much point in having 4 dry compounds, SS PL1, S PL2, M PL3 & Hard PL4. But in practice all use PL3 So the H tyre should be much slower than M not all nearly the same.

Frank Thomas Moderator
7 years 58 days ago (edited 7 years 58 days ago)

Kevin

Leandro

Another option would be a maximum number of each type of dry tire for the whole season.
15 SS
15 S
15 M
15 H

That's an interesting idea. Good suggestion but numbers would need to be changed. 100% race distance they'd run out of tyres half way through the season.

Indeed, for comparison I used for both cars last season:
52 super softs
32 softs
2 mediums
66 hards
7 wets (which probably would have been another 7 or 8 hards without rain)
So if made really tight then maybe 40 tyres each (or 20 per car), around 45 for a bit more relaxed choice, or increasing the numbers for the softer compounds to make up for their shorter wear.

Still a very interesting suggestion, quite a different take and would open up some tactical moves to ponder about during a season. Use 2 softs now for the first stint and go full hard there without having to resort to use too many soft then, just to arrive at the race there in pouring rain. :-D

Leandro Rembold
7 years 58 days ago

Race 100% - 20 of each type of tire per car.
Race 75% - 15
Race 50% - 10

No limit for wet tires.

Our league is 75% and i used 61 sets of tires per car in last season.

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