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New Look iGP

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medal 5000
9 years 36 days ago
So it's going to be - iGP Mobile Phone Leagues and iGP Hard Core Leagues ?

So with the little players this game has.. You want to split them up more?

I wish you would have a look at the longectivity of mobile gamers.. It's just that.. Pick up the phone, scroll through and think.. I'll play that..

The games that have made money on mobile games v's the ones who have folded isn't good.. and the ones who have made money has made it by "Put more money in to keep playing."  "Put more money in for more lives."

At least rF2 have made strides in new content and mods.. Keeping me entertained until / IF this game gets the right fixes for the PC guys. :)
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medal 5000
9 years 36 days ago
The way things are at the minute with zero updates on the iphone6 you can do everything but watch the race :)
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medal 5000
9 years 36 days ago
"Uncle
So it's going to be - iGP Mobile Phone Leagues and iGP Hard Core Leagues ?

So with the little players this game has.. You want to split them up more?

I wish you would have a look at the longectivity of mobile gamers.. It's just that.. Pick up the phone, scroll through and think.. I'll play that..

The games that have made money on mobile games v's the ones who have folded isn't good.. Ind the ones who have made money has made it by "Put more money in to keep playing."  "Put more money in for more lives."

At least rF2 have made strides in new content and mods.. Keeping me entertained until / IF this game gets the right fixes for the PC guys. :)


If I'm completely honest, anyone who owns only apple devices, specifically IPHONES, should go get a life and realise the day Apple make Ios downloadable from other devices is the day Apple go bankrupt.
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medal 5859
9 years 36 days ago
"James

"Uncle
So it's going to be - iGP Mobile Phone Leagues and iGP Hard Core Leagues ?

So with the little players this game has.. You want to split them up more?

I wish you would have a look at the longectivity of mobile gamers.. It's just that.. Pick up the phone, scroll through and think.. I'll play that..

The games that have made money on mobile games v's the ones who have folded isn't good.. Ind the ones who have made money has made it by "Put more money in to keep playing."  "Put more money in for more lives."

At least rF2 have made strides in new content and mods.. Keeping me entertained until / IF this game gets the right fixes for the PC guys. :)



If I'm completely honest, anyone who owns only apple devices, specifically IPHONES, should go get a life and realise the day Apple make Ios downloadable from other devices is the day Apple go bankrupt.

That's so off-topic and such an off-the-wall thing to mention here. Why would Apple let iOS be downloadable for other devices? And what's wrong with owning only Apple devices? Everybody has their preference. In my opinion, Apple's products prove that superior hardware can't make up for shitty software. Nicer to have a flawless operating system and lower performing hardware than a crappy operating system with advanced hardware.
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medal 5859
9 years 36 days ago
"Jack
Thanks for the feedback, I am still reading your posts.

One simple solution would be to add a "hardcore mode" after launch, which re-introduces a lot of complexity, or increased complexity over even the current game. This could be a mode which certain leagues could run, if set by the host.

The game will inevitably be simplified on the next update, primarily so that the game is playable on mobiles. It's unrealistic to expect people to use calculators on their phone to play a game. That won't work, with many devices barely jump between apps at a respectable rate, not to mention the extra brain-power it requires to remember the numbers when coming back to the app.

It's very easy to assume people will put up with inconveniences like that, but in reality it never works out. Just look at how much the Java applet we used up until now has alienated people, for example. We want people to be able to play in a bar, or on the sofa at their convenience. Not only when they have a desk, a calculator, a computer with certain plugins and browsers installed and a sheet of paper or a spreadsheet handy.

Hm...I understand the simplification is necessary. I liked the 'hardcore mode' solution, but I feel like Uncle Albert mentioned a good point as well.

Is there any way to make the game progressively more...complex without adding a hardcore mode solution? I imagine the simplification will allow more people finding iGP Manager attractive to try and play, but there must be a way for players on mobile being able to race with players on PCs while allowing the game to become more management intensive as players gain experience.

Uncle Albert, if you see this post — what do you think of my suggestion?
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medal 5000
9 years 35 days ago
"Blunion

"James

"Uncle
So it's going to be - iGP Mobile Phone Leagues and iGP Hard Core Leagues ?

So with the little players this game has.. You want to split them up more?

I wish you would have a look at the longectivity of mobile gamers.. It's just that.. Pick up the phone, scroll through and think.. I'll play that..

The games that have made money on mobile games v's the ones who have folded isn't good.. Ind the ones who have made money has made it by "Put more money in to keep playing."  "Put more money in for more lives."

At least rF2 have made strides in new content and mods.. Keeping me entertained until / IF this game gets the right fixes for the PC guys. :)




If I'm completely honest, anyone who owns only apple devices, specifically IPHONES, should go get a life and realise the day Apple make Ios downloadable from other devices is the day Apple go bankrupt.

That's so off-topic and such an off-the-wall thing to mention here. Why would Apple let iOS be downloadable for other devices? And what's wrong with owning only Apple devices? Everybody has their preference. In my opinion, Apple's products prove that superior hardware can't make up for shitty software. Nicer to have a flawless operating system and lower performing hardware than a crappy operating system with advanced hardware.

To be fair, you seem just as in-depth into that conversation as I am, and hey, you accepted Albert's post about micro-transactions. And now all that stuff is cleared up, I can say it is technically possible to get other phones to run on iOS almost flawlessly, free of charge.
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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago
"Blunion

"Jack
Thanks for the feedback, I am still reading your posts.



One simple solution would be to add a "hardcore mode" after launch, which re-introduces a lot of complexity, or increased complexity over even the current game. This could be a mode which certain leagues could run, if set by the host.



The game will inevitably be simplified on the next update, primarily so that the game is playable on mobiles. It's unrealistic to expect people to use calculators on their phone to play a game. That won't work, with many devices barely jump between apps at a respectable rate, not to mention the extra brain-power it requires to remember the numbers when coming back to the app.



It's very easy to assume people will put up with inconveniences like that, but in reality it never works out. Just look at how much the Java applet we used up until now has alienated people, for example. We want people to be able to play in a bar, or on the sofa at their convenience. Not only when they have a desk, a calculator, a computer with certain plugins and browsers installed and a sheet of paper or a spreadsheet handy.


Hm...I understand the simplification is necessary. I liked the 'hardcore mode' solution, but I feel like Uncle Albert mentioned a good point as well.



Is there any way to make the game progressively more...complex without adding a hardcore mode solution? I imagine the simplification will allow more people finding iGP Manager attractive to try and play, but there must be a way for players on mobile being able to race with players on PCs while allowing the game to become more management intensive as players gain experience.



Uncle Albert, if you see this post — what do you think of my suggestion?


As long as the mobile gamers are being thought about... I just can't see a way of the PC people being entertained.. When games from 1995 has more complexity than the new version.. Why would PC people bother?

I find it funny that this game had way over a 1000 people logged on day in and day out when it was the way it was and broken.. You go backward to a dumb and dumber version.. Why not take what you have.. Fix it (Like it has been promised for the past 3 yrs) and build on top of it..

This is nothing but.. We can't make it like it was.. So we're making a dumb version and it will be the same as a 0.01 Alpha version.

I also find it very funny that in the past 2 weeks, Jack has logged on twice.. and he didn't even bother to make a post about anything.. I'm just waiting to log on to a taken down site soon tbh...


As it stands - It's yet another announcement.. 3 pics of not very much.. 1/2 of what is left at iGP kicking off and saying that they don't want the new version.. and nothing else.. (On the back of a 2nd version that I was personally apart of a few years ago that never came to anything and was broken.)
Next week is November and nothing... It's a joke tbh.. Where are the announcements ? Where are the updates on what is being done with YOUR money ?? where is anything ????

The more I type this.. The more p***ed I'm getting with it all..
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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago
"Uncle

"Blunion

"Jack
Thanks for the feedback, I am still reading your posts.



One simple solution would be to add a "hardcore mode" after launch, which re-introduces a lot of complexity, or increased complexity over even the current game. This could be a mode which certain leagues could run, if set by the host.



The game will inevitably be simplified on the next update, primarily so that the game is playable on mobiles. It's unrealistic to expect people to use calculators on their phone to play a game. That won't work, with many devices barely jump between apps at a respectable rate, not to mention the extra brain-power it requires to remember the numbers when coming back to the app.



It's very easy to assume people will put up with inconveniences like that, but in reality it never works out. Just look at how much the Java applet we used up until now has alienated people, for example. We want people to be able to play in a bar, or on the sofa at their convenience. Not only when they have a desk, a calculator, a computer with certain plugins and browsers installed and a sheet of paper or a spreadsheet handy.


Hm...I understand the simplification is necessary. I liked the 'hardcore mode' solution, but I feel like Uncle Albert mentioned a good point as well.



Is there any way to make the game progressively more...complex without adding a hardcore mode solution? I imagine the simplification will allow more people finding iGP Manager attractive to try and play, but there must be a way for players on mobile being able to race with players on PCs while allowing the game to become more management intensive as players gain experience.



Uncle Albert, if you see this post — what do you think of my suggestion?


As long as the mobile gamers are being thought about... I just can't see a way of the PC people being entertained.. When games from 1995 has more complexity than the new version.. Why would PC people bother?

I find it funny that this game had way over a 1000 people logged on day in and day out when it was the way it was and broken.. You go backward to a dumb and dumber version.. Why not take what you have.. Fix it (Like it has been promised for the past 3 yrs) and build on top of it..

This is nothing but.. We can't make it like it was.. So we're making a dumb version and it will be the same as a 0.01 Alpha version.

I also find it very funny that in the past 2 weeks, Jack has logged on twice.. and he didn't even bother to make a post about anything.. I'm just waiting to log on to a taken down site soon tbh...


As it stands - It's yet another announcement.. 3 pics of not very much.. 1/2 of what is left at iGP kicking off and saying that they don't want the new version.. and nothing else.. (On the back of a 2nd version that I was personally apart of a few years ago that never came to anything and was broken.)
Next week is November and nothing... It's a joke tbh.. Where are the announcements ? Where are the updates on what is being done with YOUR money ?? where is anything ????

The more I type this.. The more p***ed I'm getting with it all..


They are well and truly screwing this game up, no real improvements in 3 years, but it took away all the complexity that made it slightly decent. By no way is this a game that is treated as it should, with loads of more features for the hardcore managers and some of the really simple bug fixes taken out, this game could become something worth me paying £20 for an annual subscription.
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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago
If this game was done correctly James.. I would be more than happy to put £10 a month in to it.. I've put well over £200 in to this game as it stands... Our league is on a break.. and I've not screamed for my years subscription back..(Even though it is a month or two in to it.) and I've wanted to actually put more money in to this game..

It could quite easily be the biggest game of it's type.. and end up with proper licences for all types of series.. but it will never get to that stage.
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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago
Actually thinking about it... If the game was fully Java and you spend all of the time re-coding the 2D... Why would you then make a dumb interface to use it ??
That doesn't smell right to me..
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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago
"Uncle
Actually thinking about it... If the game was fully Java and you spend all of the time re-coding the 2D... Why would you then make a dumb interface to use it ??

That doesn't smell right to me..


So Uncles have a goods sense of smell apparently......
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
9 years 34 days ago (edited 9 years 34 days ago)
Nothing matters if we don't build a great game, so that remains our priority.

I have to say I cringe whenever there's talk of "the money" from the PC version though, because it's not profitable, as outlined in past blogs. If it was, maybe we could have just paid people and said "more tracks, better widgets etc.". But in reality, there was some really poor, undocumented, technology left behind by the original sim developer. It didn't scale (which meant the service broke down any time it got in-demand), the track builder didn't work (we couldn't make tracks, period) and it required Java on the front-end, which now is outright toxic to use. So, our priorty was fixing things and moving away from Java before doing anything, which we're almost finished on, and will be available on the web soon. I'm sure everyone has noticed how much more reliable the service has been for months, although that sort of thing gets quickly forgotten. But to go from break-even with a few hundred users online, to being in a position to re-invest in the game with thousands of users online, is going to take an entirely different approach.

Fixing things is not enough, if we aren't on the right devices. Trends dictate that we've got to target tablets and mobiles, for iGP's long-term future. Even in management games the tablet/mobile audience is much bigger, and will help create a thriving community. At least two companies that I know of have built a huge following on mobile now and brought that momentum to PC. We're sort of doing the reverse, and we're punching well above our weight to go take on these mobile guys. But I'm confident in the team we have now and things look very positive.

More screenshots and information will be coming in November, when we aim to release an early beta too. Also FYI, all facilities can be upgraded up to level 20 now - since people keep mentioning that.
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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago (edited 9 years 34 days ago)
"Jack
Nothing matters if we don't build a great game, so that remains our priority.


My opinion does matter much, but you already have a great game. I love iGP manager.
Fair enough it's built to use java and all web browsers are moving away from java that's not your fault. Moving and improving what you already have to work on tablets/mobiles is great it allows for more users and current users to play while away from the computer.
The push levels are wee bit off target and need slightly more refined. But that's mostly down to people not supplying feedback to get them sorted out.
Things I would love to see in the game others don't want or like.
The likes of tyre management where you have to look after your tyres and keep them at optimal range to get the best out of them both in terms of speed and life, this should be a major part of the game as it's a management game. Management it's just about finding the best suppliers and drivers, looking after budgets, figuring out the best setups and keeping employees happy. Once you get to the track you should still have to look after the car and tyres. Cheap parts build great fast cars but unreliable ones managing wear plus tyres should come into the races too.

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medal 5000
9 years 34 days ago
"James

"Jack
Nothing matters if we don't build a great game, so that remains our priority.


My opinion does matter much, but you already have a great game. I love iGP manager.
Fair enough it's built to use java and all web browsers are moving away from java that's not your fault. Moving and improving what you already have to work on tablets/mobiles is great it allows for more users and current users to play while away from the computer.
The push levels are wee bit off target and need slightly more refined. But that's mostly down to people not supplying feedback to get them sorted out.
Things I would love to see in the game others don't want or like.
The likes of tyre management where you have to look after your tyres and keep them at optimal range to get the best out of them both in terms of speed and life, this should be a major part of the game as it's a management game. Management it's just about finding the best suppliers and drivers, looking after budgets, figuring out the best setups and keeping employees happy. Once you get to the track you should still have to look after the car and tyres. Cheap parts build great fast cars but unreliable ones managing wear plus tyres should come into the races too.



OH NO! IVE ANGERED A PERSON MAKING THIS GAME!






Oh..... yeah.... it was just.... jokes.. you.. know? :)




But seriously, I think this game was made with a great idea and it's structure is decent, I just feel it isn't what it could be.
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
9 years 33 days ago (edited 9 years 33 days ago)
The majority of suggestions and feedback even in this thread have been addressed in the updates. The balance of racing is more interesting, design upgrades have greater impact on various circuits, facilities scale up to level 20 and of course there will be no more browser plugins.

We chose to do a lot of work in the dark, because the landscape has changed since 2011 / 2012. There are probably half a dozen developers now (some huge companies) who have taken the concepts and ideas of iGP and made clone titles in various marketplaces who have done very well. We'll be entering these same marketplaces now with these updates, opening a world of possibilities for iGP. Being restricted to the website with plugins has really hindered the potential of this game we all love (and sometimes love to hate :P) up until now. In the end we all want iGP to be popular with a thriving community, and that's a big part of this.

It's important for me to highlight the factors being juggled in our decision making process, which aren't a factor looking from the outside. When people wonder why there have been delays turning the ship around, it's a legitimate concern, if we'd had all we needed at our disposal and didn't use it. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case and no matter how hard we tried to run with the old platform it was never going to work. Now we've done the right thing and re-engineered everything in the best way possible, so there will be a big difference in output once the new platform is out. We've addressed all the key concerns with the original platform one-by-one: service stability and latency, requiring obsolete plugins, gameplay balance improvements, gameplay longevity (upgrading beyond level 10), cross-platform / device support, ease-of-use for new players. All of these things and more have been addressed in the new iGP.

To respond to some concerns more directly, we will likely make the setup more complex. If it's numerical, this might be a range of 1-10 or 1-20, because the old 1-100 values are too steep for mobiles. We can also return fuel to liters with a bit of tweaking, but this could be a risky move for the mobile audience which is likely to want ease-of-use above all else.

We're going to do all we can to keep the desktop experience fresh and challenging, and hope to improve that as much as any other platform with these updates. It may be that some players want more of a challenge, and that's the sort of thing which will be suited to future updates. We can layer in more complexity over time, or potentially a hardcore mode to keep both camps happy.
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medal 5000
9 years 33 days ago
Hi Jack,

No doubting all the work that needs to go into the background, so qudos for sticking with it.

On the fuel issue, litres v laps. would it be possible to make both available? However I guess this might give an advantage to the "hardcore user" who might gain time on by having a more exact fuel?

Or maybe make these more "hardcore" options available progressively from rookie to pro to elite?

Or even a shake up of the ranking system and even rank leagues somehow? Not that your forced to move from one league to another, a ranking based on the size of the league and the number of actived racers etc. The higher up the ranking the more of these more detail tools are available.

It might help towards reducing the "ghost leagues" and people will want to go race in more active and skilled leagues?

I do understand the argument about creating a hardcore option per league may actually be of detriment to the game in general by splitting the players even further. So a league based system which actively tries to push players to want to go further may offset the chance of fracturing the player base?
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medal 5000
9 years 33 days ago (edited 9 years 33 days ago)
Also, on the fuel question.

At the moment your technical director in a 100% race still says something like 3 stops on mediums with 60l of fuel. Few of us listen, most of us add stops and change compounds.

How much additional load would it add to the backend systems to have the "technical director" recalculate their recommend amount of litres on the fly based on the number of laps the user suggest.

More novice or mobile based users would then be able to follow the TD's recommendations without having to calculate anything, while the more "advanced" or desktop based players would then be still be able to make adjustments?

I dont think it would add an imbalance to the game as it would give the players who want to add more time and thought to their game the advantage they deserve?

I think everyone would love to see the game continue and understand that unfortunately, if we like it or not, is about bringing new people to the playing field.
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medal 5000
9 years 33 days ago
Feeling better about the update now with some of the extra stuff added.
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
9 years 33 days ago (edited 9 years 33 days ago)
"Jamie
On the fuel issue, litres v laps. would it be possible to make both available? However I guess this might give an advantage to the "hardcore user" who might gain time on by having a more exact fuel?

I was leaning towards having liters entered manually, but underneath it the Technical Directors prediction is displayed in laps, updated in real-time, instead of a fuel per lap value.

E.g.
Fuel: 100 Litres
Estimate: 24.6 laps.

This way the desktop users who want to crunch numbers on a calculator can eek out an extra advantage, and fuel consumption has to be managed during the race still. Mobile users also get a simple lap value that doesn't require them to whip out a calculator every 5 seconds to figure out their fuel loads. The predictions will be more accurate than they are currently to avoid too many headaches.

As for the setup, I thought of this:
The first two values shown in the screenshots on the blog (Suspension and Gearing priority) could still have the simple values shown in the screenshots, but Aerodynamics could be changed to "Wing Level" and defined as a number with a big range of values. Since wings are primarily what change depending on the weather conditions etc. this would re-introduce complexity in to the car setups that could give those paying close attention during setup an advantage. Overall complexity in setups is still reduced sufficiently to make it fun on mobiles, but there remains a big challenge in getting that wing value spot on. IMO trying to get 5 or 6 values right like that is not really much fun on desktop or mobiles, the most fun is to be had in the race.

We're expecting people to manage fuel, tyre wear and tyre temperature in the races still, even on mobiles. We've just made it visually more easy to understand with a new GUI, along with all the other GUI updates. The race simulation itself remains exactly the same challenge as it was before, though.
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medal 5000
9 years 33 days ago
"Jack

"Jamie
On the fuel issue, litres v laps. would it be possible to make both available? However I guess this might give an advantage to the "hardcore user" who might gain time on by having a more exact fuel?


I was leaning towards having liters entered manually, but underneath it the Technical Directors prediction is displayed in laps, updated in real-time, instead of a fuel per lap value.



E.g.

Fuel: 100 Litres

Estimate: 24.6 laps.



This way the desktop users who want to crunch numbers on a calculator can eek out an extra advantage, and fuel consumption has to be managed during the race still. Mobile users also get a simple lap value that doesn't require them to whip out a calculator every 5 seconds to figure out their fuel loads. The predictions will be more accurate than they are currently to avoid too many headaches.



As for the setup, I thought of this:

The first two values shown in the screenshots on the blog (Suspension and Gearing priority) could still have the simple values shown in the screenshots, but Aerodynamics could be changed to "Wing Level" and defined as a number with a big range of values. Since wings are primarily what change depending on the weather conditions etc. this would re-introduce complexity in to the car setups that could give those paying close attention during setup an advantage. Overall complexity in setups is still reduced sufficiently to make it fun on mobiles, but there remains a big challenge in getting that wing value spot on. IMO trying to get 5 or 6 values right like that is not really much fun on desktop or mobiles, the most fun is to be had in the race.



We're expecting people to manage fuel, tyre wear and tyre temperature in the races still, even on mobiles. We've just made it visually more easy to understand with a new GUI, along with all the other GUI updates. The race simulation itself remains exactly the same challenge as it was before, though.


Hi Jack.

This all makes good reading!

Any idea on when the update my roll out?

What will happen to out existing teams and ongoing seasons?

Thanks
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