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We need to talk about HARDS

I've been playing the game for almost a year now and think it's great. I applaud the talented guys and gals who made it. 
There's always niggles and countless things I could suggest to make it better for me ('me' being the operative word there), but there's one thing that comes up time and time again. In fact, one of the first threads I read on here was about the very same subject. I've never posted a comment, let alone began a thread, so what's my beef?

Well, if you haven't guessed already, it's the omnipresent Hard/Hard strategy. Yes I know it's summer now, but it was like this during the winter and pretty much since I started last summer. And I have also read the thread where the makers have stated that they want it to be really difficult to choose between the different tyre strategies. Right now it's not difficult to choose between the tyres, one just selects 1 stop H/H.

I've used this H/H strategy to great effect coming up through the ranks (in a 50% race length league), so there is still a fondness to use this strategy. However, a number of managers in my league are beginning to come up with ideas of how to negate the advantage (or tedium) of the H/H strategy.

So what's the idea? 
At the moment, the only credible thing to do is force a two tyre strategy. I've heard that other leagues have implemented this rule. The big problem with this is policing it and non attending managers who have their push level set. At the moment, this is just an idea that is being floated, so I will update with any interesting developments.

In the meantime. 
I would like to appeal to the makers to somehow fix this. I've heard that the tyre strategies vary depending on the length of the race, so baring that in mind, here are my two suggestions for solving the issue (in order of preference). 

1. Equalise tyre strategies to work on all race lengths, so as to not advantage a particular strategy for the vast majority of races. 

2. Give League Hosts an option to force teams to use two tyre compounds during the race.

I realise it's a free game, so maybe it's a matter of finding a work-around.
I'm interested to know what you guys think, so feel free to take part in my poll.
Also, any other work-around suggestions welcome.

Thanks for reading my rant. 

Alexi

I think the biggest problem about all this is the current suddivision of TYRE WEAR % for each compounds. There's too much difference between them as any harder tyre has half tyre wear % than the close softer one. That's definitely too much and tyre wear % for softer tyres is really too high.

Let me give an example...

German GP 50% lenght (30 laps) with 20°C temp in a very competitive league with high level and skilled managers.

Current tyre wears in Germany: SS 13% - S 7% - M 4% - H 2% (11% diff between SS and H)

H/H strategy (16+14 laps or 17+13) is currently overall faster than any other strategies. No doubts.

You can, for example, try a SS/SS/H strategy (8+8+14) but it will be slower. Same as SS/S/S (8+11+11) and also S/H (12+18). No matter what.

BUT... If tyre wear % were actually these as it follows... SS 7% - S 5% - M 3% - H 2% (only 5% diff between SS and H)

Considering current tyres speed and push level differences, which one of these example strategies do you think would be faster? ...

- SS/SS/SS (10+10+10) 

- SS/H (12+18)

- S/S (15+15)

- S/M or S/H (13+17)

- H/H or H/M or H/S (16+14 or 17+13)

I'd be very curious to find out.

Hard tyres are on the Development teams to do list. 

Fingers crossed they get slowed down a bit in the next update.

I like this post because it highlights an improvement and gives the guys the credit they deserve 
I would like it so the tyre performs different depending on the circuit so it's not always a 1 or 2 stop hards race

Some interesting comments, thanks. More tyres would be fun, but can the system handle that much extra data?

Dea, adjusting the wear rates could be the solution if they can code different wear rates to suit the different lengths of race.

Poll so far suggests people like the idea of a two tyre compound. It's probably an easier thing to code in to the game, but I wonder if it infringes F1 copyright?

Crap, I've just noticed a typo in the 1st option for the poll. At the end of the sentence it should say 'races' not 'race'...!!!
I wouldn't mind so much, but it changes the meaning and I can't edit it, oh well.

Great editing the wear levels, but doing that alone won't change much if the hard tyre continues to be faster than it should be.

4 stints of SS should be equal to 1 stint H
3 stints of S should be equal to 1 stint H
2 stints of M should be equal to 1 stint H
The wear rates for tracks should have that in mind and only certain tyres should be able to work no mater what the temp.
When you see F1 flying around a track on Ultra softs at 35°C weather temp and 41°C track temp it makes us look very bad flying around on hard tyres and it only 10°C

I agree with the end of your message, it's too easy to heat up hards nowadays. The absolute simplest way to fix the hards issue is to adjust how quickly they heat up. Germany is one of the tracks that makes sense to me in most seasons in terms of the push level needed for hards to stay at an optimal temp (it's around 4/5 and sometimes even 5/5). In iGP The speed that a tyre has/can give isn't only dependent on wear, it's also dependent on temperature! So there is another way around the issue to introducing new tyres or changing tyre wear.


Tyres are always complicated to fix because whenever someone finds the quickest strategy and abuses it and then everyone starts to abuse it, everyone complains. This could still happen with any of the suggestions suggested here imo...
I've seen a "random shake up in tyre wear every few seasons" idea suggested. And this would guarantee diversity in strats, but would also guarantee confusion amongst rookies... 

I disagree with the second option (give League Hosts an option to force teams to use two tyre compounds during the race). That is unfair to managers who can't attend live races and manage tyre temp.

I don't agree with this.

Hard tyres are still the slowest of all available tyres on a single lap, the only reason they soon become faster than softer tyres is just because tyre wear for softer tyres is definitely too high. And we can only manage to get 4-5 really fast laps with SS tyres for example, but if tyre wears were lower and closer to each other we could get much more laps from softer tyres, that are fatser than hard tyres, and so we would see hard tyres wouldn't be the fastest tyres anymore.

Also in the real F1, tyre wear difference between all the tyres is very short. You can see cars doing 25-30 laps on Ultrasofts or even Hypersofts. Of course they will gradually slow down but they can do many many laps with those tyres and they almost always choose to start with the softest tyres available just because of that. Of course sometimes it happens they choose harder tyres better depending on the track and temps, as it should be for us in iGP as well.

In Belgium iGP, tyre wear for SS tyres is 19% ( !!! ) what the hell?? You can only do 3 fast laps with them! Soft tyre wear is 9% (!!!) you can't even split the race doing S+S cause they will slow down at half of each stint! It's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to win the Belgian iGP doing a 2 stops strategy against someone as skilled as you running a 1 stopper H/H strategy, so the H/H strategy becomes the ONLY winning strategy in Belgium even if race temp is the lowest to only 10°C!

Tell me I'm wrong, but I absolutely definitely totally really believe those tyre wears for softer tyres are too much high and should be lowered to make the game better. There should be a shorter difference between current tyre wear ratings. No doubts about that.

-------

P.S. How do I quote another comment by editing? 

Anyway I totally agree with Dea's suggestion. But I woukd also be ok with the idea of making a 2 compound rule option, together with the possibility to set a different push level for each stint to help those who don't attend the races.

A choice of 2 compounds to use at a track would likely work fine, as long as you don't have to use both.

Low wear SS & S. 3-4-5 stop strategies
Medium wear S & M. 2-3-4 stop strategies
High wear M & H. 1-2-3 stop strategies

But still need to do something with the speed difference between M & H.

That's 100% true. Also the Malaysian GP has 17% wear for SS tyres and it's absolutely impossible to beat someone on H/H strategy, with a 2 stops strategy and softer tyres. Even tho the race temp is usually high there so it's just a little bit more normal compared to Belgium.

My first victory in the MJL Elite 2 seasons ago in Japan, I won on a H/H strategy while the top teams were on a 2 stops strategy, it was a very close finish but I was level 16 and I beat three level 20 top managers and two level 19 top managers who all were attending the race. I can't remember exact race temp but I remember it was around 20°C, enough to overheat softer tyres and make them slow after just a few laps just because of high tyre wear, which is 16% there in Japan. The season after, I did same strategy but the others also used a 1 stop strategy with H tyres and I obviously finished out of the points.
I'm glad other people agree with my view on tyre wear ratings being too high for softer tyres. Also Kevin, we race in the same league together with Alexi who created this thread and we often talk about those things on our league wall lately. IDK how the devs will sort this out but I really think adjustng tyre wear for softer tyres to a lower rating would really help the game and give us all plenty of valuable tyre choice options every races.

The tyre compounds need to be recalibrated, as currently Hards are the tyre of choice in many races...  As a league host, I do not want to make people choose 2 different tyre choices, as those who cannot be present for a race need to use a lower push level for the harder tyre.

As for a larger range of tyres, again, I feel that the current tyres are fine.  It is just that the pace between the tyres needs to be adjusted so that a softer tyre, within its working range is still quicker than a harder tyre to within suitable limits.

The default could be coded so that there are two compounds with no strategy put in. 10-18deg SS-S-S-S PL -1, 18 deg and over M-H-H-H Neutral, for example and based on the lap distance. So like Monaco SS for 10 laps, Belgium for 5, and then the rest evened out as it already is.  Push level really is irrelevant if a manager doesn't setup, or attend, but at least two compounds can be used regardless so an attending manager on 2 compound strat isn't compromised by a default 3 stop medium and if the manager can attend during the race but it happens to be after the last stop then the 2 compounds are already fulfilled. Otherwise, attend the whole race every time.  Just a thought. 

 

Just a list of my thoughts on this issue:
1. Adding another tyre compound might just complicate the system more for no real benefit.
2. I think that Hards are simply too temperature flexible. It should be harder to bring them into an operating window.
3. The Soft compound is close to useless on some circuits because Hards can keep up with FRESH Softs.
4. The way the current wear models works makes the "doubling" of wear rates biased towards the harder compounds. I suggest narrowing the margins, maybe to 1.5.

Thanks Jack, I think there's some good suggestions here, but what seems simple to us, might prove to be a technical nightmare for the boffins at iGP. We'll look forward to hearing your thoughts.