ios-personmd-notifications md-help-circle

Profile

  • Guest
    medal 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Post Likes: 3765

Notifications

  • No Unread Notifications

Open
TYRES: Scaling wear to race duration

warning
This thread is closed. Threads older than 6 weeks are closed automatically. To continue this discussion, create a new thread.
angle-double-left ios-arrow-back 1 2 3 4 ios-arrow-forward angle-double-right
md-lock This topic has been closed by the moderator
medal 5549 CEO & CTO
6 years 106 days ago (edited 6 years 106 days ago)
From Monday 10th September @ 11:00 (GMT) tyre wear will be scaled to the duration of the race as follows:


  • 100% duration race - tyres wear 0.5 times the current rate

  • 75% duration race - tyres wear 0.66 times the current rate

  • 50% duration race - no change

  • 25% duration race - tyres wear 2 times the current rate



You will be able to preview the new wear rates in your practice laps after the release. We will postpone races for 3 hours after the change, so that anyone preparing for a race has time to preview the wear rates before using them. If you have enough data you could also work out the difference from the numbers above and what the implications will be for strategy.

Where did this idea come from?
In a recent thread about the dominance of hard tyres, I put forward suggestions to improve the situation which were well received. One of my suggestions was that in order to get an overall consensus on tyre performance, we had to start scaling them to race duration.

The reason for this suggestion is simple. I don't think we can achieve a consensus so long as all tyres wear at the same rate regardless of race duration. For example, you can run an entire 25% duration race on 1 set of hard tyres and never pit. Or, you can 1-stop in a 50% duration race on hards (the one everyone complains about). Therefore, if we scale wear to the race duration, so that 25% races will wear 2 times as fast as 50% races, then we'll have some uniformity across the board when we get feedback on the tyre balance. It should be roughly the same experience in all race durations, just happening at a faster pace in shorter races.

Even if after the change there are complaints about tyre balance, we will be more easily able to address them across the board, since they will likely apply to everyone and not just the leagues at a certain race duration.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago (edited 6 years 106 days ago)
ADMIN NOTE: THIS REPLY WAS WRITTEN BEFORE A CHANGE TO THE FIGURES IN A SUBSEQUENT POST
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So reading this Hard tires are still going to dominated races. but instead of one stop on  a 50% race for example you be doing two stops. Super Soft or Soft will still not be in play for most races as they will need the double amount of stops as well.  So at the moment all that seems to be changed is we will be doing more pit stops for hard tires but still everyone will be racing with hards even when it 10 degrees as they are the best tire to use. 
I though the whole idea was to make Hard tires not so dominated? Cant see how this move alone is going to do this.
md-quotelink
medal 5549 CEO & CTO
6 years 106 days ago (edited 6 years 106 days ago)
Hi Brad, let me clear this up: I don't expect this one change to address everything in and of itself. We will be making further tweaks to tyres in the immediate aftermath of this change based on your feedback. It is the start of addressing it, not the end.

To quote my original suggestion from the thread I linked in the first post:

Jack
My preferred route at this point is:

  • Reduce the range of wear between tyres

  • Scale tyre wear to race duration




Because the second part of my suggestion is such a disruptive one, I feel we must do this one first and "get it out of the way" in order that we might be able to re-balance the tyres properly and uniformly across the board. Conservative changes are the name of the game when it comes to this stuff. We don't want to change multiple things at once in a big way, as this can undermine the ability to understand the impact of each change individually. You may feel the consequences of the change will be predictable, but there will likely be many more far-reaching implications which we cannot foresee until it hits a live environment.

Rest assured, the wait between this update and any further revisions to the tyres will not be like the wait for us to get on to this change in the first place. We will be responding within days to the feedback on this change to implement any suggestions on re-balancing the tyres, likely moving quickly to adjusting the wear-rates and/or performance levels of the individual tyres. At least when we do that, we will be able to know the changes are relatively consistent across all race durations, unlike now.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago (edited 6 years 106 days ago)
Thanks for the reply Jack. 
You might want to add more pit stops function to the set up page. not sure 4 will be enough on 75% race distance as I am in. As it is now some races I use all of them and more. Now the tires are not going to last as long we will need to set up more pit stops :) I look forward to the changes.
Thanks again Jack for the changes you guys are making

Edit I also wrote this post before Jack made the changes to the figures in the opening post
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
I have a suggestion for the site, could include for the owners of the league the option of obliging in the race to use two compounds of different tires, another suggestion is the choice of compounds by race, for example, in that race the chosen compounds will be the softest is the super soft and the hardest medium, so the other compounds could not be used.
and one thing I noticed in the seasons, is that the winner does not win the prize in the end, he should have a prize money and coins at the end of the season.
I think it would get better, think about these changes in the future...
md-quotelink
medal 5549 CEO & CTO
6 years 106 days ago
In response to immediate feedback, I've already decided to make a change to the implementation. This was also partly a mistake on my part when I wrote the post. We will use the 50% race duration as the benchmark, not the 100% race duration as previously stated when I first made the post.

The numbers have been updated accordingly.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
Now that sounds better already Jack. Unless you are in 50% league but I am sure as you said you will change the tires in that to suit with feedback. I am looking forward to Mondays race now knowing for my race the softs and Super softs are now probably far more back in play
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
I think you should base tyre wear on how many points each team has for Downforce & Handling and scrap Tyre Economy stat.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
Hi Jack,
Sounds like this tyre scaling update won’t affect fuel consumption? That could potentially introduce a problem. It could become much more beneficial to use softer compounds in a 100% race than in a 50% race, because the initial fuel load will double for every stint in a 100% race if you try to reach the same tyre wear at the end of a stint. That means races of different lengths will be even more different than they are now. That will be the opposite of the desired effect of this update. If we scale tyres, we must scale fuel consumption too.
md-quotelink
medal 5549 CEO & CTO
6 years 106 days ago
Hi Jason, it had crossed my mind, but:
Jack
We don't want to change multiple things at once in a big way, as this can undermine the ability to understand the impact of each change individually.


Scaling fuel is one such thing better done in isolation than lumped in with a myriad of other changes. It may turn out that it makes sense to do this after the tyre change, but there are also other ways to do it. E.g. we could make the impact of fuel weight scale or other effects that would have the same outcome.

By doing each one individually, we can give more thought to each individual change and analyse its impacts more clearly.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
I was thinking about Jason suggestion of fuel and i think maybe he has a point but if we change fuel too race strategy will the same for all race distances. Maybe we can try this for while but i think a smaller step can be more proper between 0.75 - 0.66 for 100% race with out changing fuel.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
pI think they should make the use of two or more tires mandatory 
since some teams complete the races only with hard rubber
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
Jack, you should fix the problem of the Average Tire, because it has times that the Medium does not make good turns in cold temperatures 15, 12, 14, degrees, and because of this the Average tires end up turning a horrible tire, to be faster in the same situation.
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
As I understand it will the most first step of deciding problem of unbalanced tyres?
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago

Jack
Hi Jason, it had crossed my mind, but:
Jack
We don't want to change multiple things at once in a big way, as this can undermine the ability to understand the impact of each change individually.


Scaling fuel is one such thing better done in isolation than lumped in with a myriad of other changes. It may turn out that it makes sense to do this after the tyre change, but there are also other ways to do it. E.g. we could make the impact of fuel weight scale or other effects that would have the same outcome.

By doing each one individually, we can give more thought to each individual change and analyse its impacts more clearly.


Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the reply!

(Seems like I will need to adapt to changing situations in the upcoming days... Worrisome but also exciting! We’ll see how this update impacts my championship!)
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
In spanish plz
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago (edited 6 years 106 days ago)
Jack
From Monday 10th September @ 11:00 (GMT) tyre wear will be scaled to the duration of the race as follows:


  • 100% duration race - tyres wear 0.5 times the current rate

  • 75% duration race - tyres wear 0.66 times the current rate

  • 50% duration race - no change

  • 25% duration race - tyres wear 2 times the current rate



You will be able to preview the new wear rates in your practice laps after the release. We will postpone races for 3 hours after the change, so that anyone preparing for a race has time to preview the wear rates before using them. If you have enough data you could also work out the difference from the numbers above and what the implications will be for strategy.

Where did this idea come from?
In a recent thread about the dominance of hard tyres, I put forward suggestions to improve the situation which were well received. One of my suggestions was that in order to get an overall consensus on tyre performance, we had to start scaling them to race duration.

The reason for this suggestion is simple. I don't think we can achieve a consensus so long as all tyres wear at the same rate regardless of race duration. For example, you can run an entire 25% duration race on 1 set of hard tyres and never pit. Or, you can 1-stop in a 50% duration race on hards (the one everyone complains about). Therefore, if we scale wear to the race duration, so that 25% races will wear 2 times as fast as 50% races, then we'll have some uniformity across the board when we get feedback on the tyre balance. It should be roughly the same experience in all race durations, just happening at a faster pace in shorter races.

Even if after the change there are complaints about tyre balance, we will be more easily able to address them across the board, since they will likely apply to everyone and not just the leagues at a certain race duration.



I'm sorry Jack, but I think that's a mistake. F1 manager = 100%... not 50% of the races. In the leagues with 100% and real time it will lead to problems with SS. They'll be overpowered.

That's my opinion of what I've read.


But maybe you can explain this to me better?

THX
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago
Can we not make it that everyone has to use 2 different compounds in the race like they have to in f1 but also make this where we have to choose before the race takes place then it might give the smaller teams like myself a chance to take some points off the bigger teams may also stop people copy and pasting tactics from the season before 
md-quotelink
medal 5000
6 years 106 days ago (edited 6 years 106 days ago)
 if tyre wear is 17% it will be rounded to 8 or 9?
This is horrible anyway.
Direct scaling between different lengths is just horrible.
Lengths should be balanced separately.
md-quotelink
medal 5549 CEO & CTO
6 years 106 days ago
If this causes any imbalance among tyres we will quickly address it, within days. If SS become overpowered in 100% races then we'll just bring the tyres closer together on pace and/or wear. I don't see anything in the concerned posts so far that we can't address quickly within a couple of rounds of revisions.

The main thing I notice in any concerns is the implication that we think this is the end solution to everything - that's simply not the case and I'd call it a misunderstanding. We think it's the start, only one piece that we will build upon.
md-quotelink
md-lock This topic has been closed by the moderator
angle-double-left ios-arrow-back 1 2 3 4 ios-arrow-forward angle-double-right

You must be logged in to post a reply.