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NEW GAME OR OLD GAME? WHAT DO YOU THINK?

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medal 5000
8 years 214 days ago
Jack - I'm sorry to say that having set up a new account on the Open Beta Test to get an idea of what we have to look forwards to, I'm very disapointed to see that the iGP Team seem to have in many ways turned their backs on the existing loyal subscribers (those players responsible for getting this game off the ground in the first place), and instead gone with a "Free to Play - Pay to Win" system which means you can only ever be truely competative if you are prepared to make in-app purchases and buy tokens left, right and centre. Unfortunately, I know I speak on behalf of many of the family and friends that I have introduced to the game when I say that  won't be continuing knowing that to win against other players we will have to continually pay money to top up tokens as they are now such an integral part of the game.

However - and hear me out - would you consider keeping the "old" version of the game running in its current format in parallel to the new one when it goes live? You could run iGP in such a way that all new accounts can only be created in the new game and that becomes the game recognised by the vast majority of players, but those accounts currently running on the existing game can keep going in what would essentially become a "Legacy iGP".

Without wanting to sound like I'm issuing you an ultimtum, I would happily keep playing on the current game and subscribing my £20/year, but as aforementioned I won't be prepared to start a game where the person who spends the most wins. I guess I'm starting to see how Sauber/Manor feel in real F1. Afterall, I have only jut resubscribed a month or so ago, I've essentially lost that £20 as soon as this version of the game gets closed.

Jack - thoughts? More to the point, do any other players agree?
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medal 5000
8 years 214 days ago
I kindly prefer both
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medal 5000
8 years 214 days ago
I agree that the new game felt ''pay to win''. I'm sure this wasn't the goal, but paying money for funds and what not certainly seem to make it look that way. Maybe I should just pick up a subscription.
Personally, I think running these 2 modes alongside each other is a nice solution, but I prefer the old game.
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medal 5000
8 years 214 days ago
Calvin - to be honest, I think it was absolutely intentional to make the game this way. In the end of the day we need to respect Jack and accept that this is his income, it's his job and it's a business and he is running the game to make money. But equally I feel that some of the existing players (especially subscribers) deserve a level of respect from the game owners and the newer version geared around people buying tokens to win is a shun to those of us who helped get the game to where it is today with our particpation, bringing in new players and keeping the cashflow going with subscription.
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medal 5859
8 years 214 days ago
A legacy iGP I think would be nice and all, but that has another cost to it altogether. It'd require double the maintenance that Jack is putting in right now and could detract from how much attention the new version of iGP gets.

My league has agreed to an ethical use of our tokens. There's still some things to discuss that we haven't had a chance to talk about, like whether or not we will use tokens to speed up the completion of upgrades.

I think that's what it will come down to. If you trust your league mates, you can agree upon your own ethical usage of tokens. I know I trust mine. We even double check before doing something that we consider an unfair advantage.

I'm going to stay a happy subscriber even if I don't use the massive amount of tokens I will get for subscribing. (oops! am I spoiling the surprise?)
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medal 5000
8 years 214 days ago
I think an ethical agreement is only realistically obtainable when you have a league with only family / friends, in which case I would have to close my league down to password entry only which actually we don't want as racing people from all around the world is one of the main attractions! For me, the only way the new game could work is if the league owner can restrict the players racing in their league from making token purchases. Therefore you can have leagues for people who want to pay, and others for those that don't...
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medal 5000
8 years 214 days ago
I was literally the biggest hater on this pathetic system right from the start aha.

Can someone make it so this game is available still on a different URL so we can use an actual GAME? 
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
8 years 214 days ago
"Ryan
Jack - I'm sorry to say that having set up a new account on the Open Beta Test to get an idea of what we have to look forwards to, I'm very disapointed to see that the iGP Team seem to have in many ways turned their backs on the existing loyal subscribers

Subscribers will get the best deal of anybody on the new game, as I've said in the blogs. I will be explaining this in detail with a new blog. In fact, we're going to make it worthwhile to keep the subscription active, and it will be a much better arrangement then anybody else will get, out of respect for the support you have given us, allowing us to keep going.

"Ryan
and instead gone with a "Free to Play - Pay to Win" system which means you can only ever be truely competative if you are prepared to make in-app purchases

For the record, that's absolutely not our intention, and I don't believe it is that way. They mainly do the same thing as the old game. You could heal a driver with reward points, or repair a car with reward points, you could reset a team and get $50m from nowhere. In the new game you can repair the car with tokens, heal a driver with tokens, or add some balance with tokens. They are not integral as much as they are integrated, in the way Reward Points never were, hidden and obscure, but offering the same powers for the most part. The subscription model is dated and doesn't appeal to many people, and subscription games are dying off in a very democratic way, as people like being able to play games for free and choose how much they invest. We've made sure the purchases are aimed at accelerating things, not handing over a direct advantage. There is no advantage from buying tokens that you can't also earn from grinding and leveling up for free.

Free-to-play was always the core philosophy of iGP, we're just making it far easier to maintain with one central service for everyone. That means we'll be able to develop the game more. With the free/subscriber model, we were slowed down massively by maintaining two games and balancing things all the time, not to mention Java and other obstacles. On top of that, subscribers always complained that too much was available for free and f2p users always complained that subscribers had a "pay to win" advantage (yes, many more people said the old game was pay to win, believe it or not).

However - and hear me out - would you consider keeping the "old" version of the game running in its current format in parallel to the new one when it goes live? You could run iGP in such a way that all new accounts can only be created in the new game and that becomes the game recognised by the vast majority of players, but those accounts currently running on the existing game can keep going in what would essentially become a "Legacy iGP".

In some capacity I've wanted to do that from the start, and I expected these reactions from some people. Mainly, I expected certain groups of hardcore simracers to feel alienated by the changes, but for the most part not that much disruption. However, releasing a legacy game won't be possible initially, it's something we can look in to at a later date. Runescape did something similar, launching their new game then offering "Runescape classic" alongside it at a later date.
I have only jut resubscribed a month or so ago, I've essentially lost that £20 as soon as this version of the game gets closed.

Actually, you will get significantly more value in the new game than you would have by saving your £20 and spending it on tokens when it is released. I will detail how in my upcoming blog for subscribers specifically. As I mentioned at the start, subscribers will get the best deal by far, and we intend to make it generous enough that you want to stay subscribed when the new game arrives.
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medal 5577
8 years 213 days ago (edited 8 years 213 days ago)
well to be honest new looks complicated to me. i dont know why but the old shows you what you need to do when your online. more of a to do list then all you need is train and design and your done. i havent played it fully yet so ill have to wait and see if i like it or not. also ALLOW YOU TO CHANGE COLOUR! i clicked on the black did nothing! and now I cant get on livery at all. thats a thing that needs to be fixed igp.as is the unity exclusive. so want to have a livery. just saying
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
"gareth
well to be honest new looks complicated to me. i dont know why but the old shows you what you need to do when your online. more of a to do list then all you need is train and design and your done. i havent played it fully yet so ill have to wait and see if i like it or not. also ALLOW YOU TO CHANGE COLOUR! i clicked on the black did nothing! and now I cant get on livery at all. thats a thing that needs to be fixed igp.as is the unity exclusive. so want to have a livery. just saying


You have to install the Unity Web Player and open the game via Firefox.
I appreciate that they finally gave us the possibility to create our own livery.
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
8 years 213 days ago
"Robert
You have to install the Unity Web Player and open the game via Firefox.
I appreciate that they finally gave us the possibility to create our own livery.


At least until we redevelop that part in WebGL. As I explained in another thread we weren't able to because we don't actually have the source code for it, it was an outsourced job and the studio who did it literally lost the source code. We need to decompile and reverse engineer before it can be converted to WebGL.
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
"Jack

"Robert
You have to install the Unity Web Player and open the game via Firefox.
I appreciate that they finally gave us the possibility to create our own livery.



At least until we redevelop that part in WebGL. As I explained in another thread we weren't able to because we don't actually have the source code for it, it was an outsourced job and the studio who did it literally lost the source code. We need to decompile and reverse engineer before it can be converted to WebGL.

I see. Once that's done, no plugin will be required no more, right?
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
New Game wins the battle & I have only done one race so far.

The tyres work well & the push levels are nicely set. Well in Australia anyway everything is as it should be have to wait to see the rest.
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
8 years 213 days ago
That's correct Robert. The livery builder is the only thing which uses a plugin now and when it is converted no plugins will be required at all in any area of the game. We've already rebuilt all java and flash applets, most importantly the race viewer.
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medal 5577
8 years 213 days ago
"James
New Game wins the battle & I have only done one race so far.

The tyres work well & the push levels are nicely set. Well in Australia anyway everything is as it should be have to wait to see the rest.


push level. wheres that!
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
gareth
"James
New Game wins the battle & I have only done one race so far.

The tyres work well & the push levels are nicely set. Well in Australia anyway everything is as it should be have to wait to see the rest.


push level. wheres that!


there is a wee slide bar on each driver you can move it up and down to make the driver more defensive or attacking
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
"Jack
That's correct Robert. The livery builder is the only thing which uses a plugin now and when it is converted no plugins will be required at all in any area of the game. We've already rebuilt all java and flash applets, most importantly the race viewer.


Still, I have trouble watching the race. All I see is the message "Connected to server", yet I cannot watch the race at all.
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
"James

"gareth

"James
New Game wins the battle & I have only done one race so far.

The tyres work well & the push levels are nicely set. Well in Australia anyway everything is as it should be have to wait to see the rest.


push level. wheres that!



there is a wee slide bar on each driver you can move it up and down to make the driver more defensive or attacking

Either I'm blind or I cannot see any slide bar.
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medal 5000
8 years 213 days ago
I have to say, having been one of the players that joined on launch day (many years ago) i have been intrigued to find out what the new version was like. I stopped playing for a year and a half because the current version became somewhat boring. Java has been a massive pain in rear and the bugs, dont get me started.


I think the new version has a real chance of kicking on, the layout is nice and clean. Tyres are well developed and generally i feel the new one could be a massive improvement.
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medal 6098 CEO & CTO
8 years 213 days ago
"Dave
I think the new version has a real chance of kicking on, the layout is nice and clean. Tyres are well developed and generally i feel the new one could be a massive improvement.

Glad to hear it. A lot of work went in to rebalancing the tyres and strategies to make races more interesting, and we can still do more.

What you describe in your experience of the old version sounds like one thing we're improving with the update. It got tedious after a while adjusting spinners every day, and the challenge gradually dissolved in to routine, and then a chore. This will not happen in the new game, and at all levels the challenge will stay fresh.

Not all of the pieces are in place for that yet, but we've made a massive first step in the right direction to replace the dragged out routine aspects with more satisfying gameplay. More will be done as the new game is developed. I've said it before, but this is not an endpoint, it's a new platform and a new beginning.
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