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Change qualifying system

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medal 5000
4 years 346 days ago

Memo
By now I'd presume most of us if not everyone have read Jack's take on iGP's strategies and/or numbers....but if you haven't yet...here it is...have a read.  Jack's words about iGP's variables .  Warning; every comment in his post is with a different outlook/perspective. have fun.



It's a great reply but they are saying it's a 1 lap roll of the device.  Qualifying with race weight would be a great overhaul
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medal 5000
4 years 309 days ago
Still no news as to why qualifying cant be with race fuel loads as we set before it takes place.  Getting very bored on this matter which would make the game a lot better
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medal 5145 CEO & CTO
4 years 309 days ago
Hi Adam, I hadn't seen this thread, and frankly haven't been able to venture in to the forum much at all these days. I tend to rely on the moderators and community manager to keep up to speed with what is going on. That's not how I want it to be, I used to be very active in the forums, but it's just the nature of the scale of things now. We even have all of the English language forums replicated in Spanish and Italian now, getting just about as much activity too.

As for the suggestion - my first thought when I read it was "didn't we used to do that before?", years ago, when iGP was just a browser game. The reason it was changed was that it actually didn't make things as interesting as you would think. If you ran a really heavy car, you'd always qualify last, slowest, and never make up for it. By changing it to how it works now, letting everyone run on the same or similar fuel in qualifying, suddenly you could spring a high-fuel stint further up the grid and make that competitive.

Until we introduce the safety car I really don't think it will do anything to spice up the racing. I think qualifying might end up more exciting than the race, and the race will just be a procession, much like it is / has been in F1 for years. Qualifying's gain becomes the race's loss. Before you know it, there is an "optimal" strategy, which is to run SS or S and low-ish fuel for stint 1, and everyone does it, because the advantage of being further up the pack is too great to ignore. Running heavy at the back behind slow cars ends up making no sense, and you have to waste boost to get past, by which time you're completely out of the running.

Many suggestions, like this one, at a glance seem to be obvious no-brainer solutions to big challenges. "Just change this and that will happen, simple!". We hear it on just about every topic, but in practice, it turns out nothing like you would expect. Even when we think things through in detail, it's never quite the same as when it goes live.

I understand that in leagues that are ridiculously competitive qualifying can seem erratic, but it's still a simulation with mostly factors within your control, and in some ways it adds excitement to the results and races, the element of surprise. I know that's not a conclusive answer, or a good enough reason on it's own, but combined with the fact that we've actually tried this and seen what happens I think we need to consider other options.
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medal 5000
4 years 309 days ago

Jack
Hi Adam, I hadn't seen this thread, and frankly haven't been able to venture in to the forum much at all these days. I tend to rely on the moderators and community manager to keep up to speed with what is going on. That's not how I want it to be, I used to be very active in the forums, but it's just the nature of the scale of things now. We even have all of the English language forums replicated in Spanish and Italian now, getting just about as much activity too.

As for the suggestion - my first thought when I read it was "didn't we used to do that before?", years ago, when iGP was just a browser game. The reason it was changed was that it actually didn't make things as interesting as you would think. If you ran a really heavy car, you'd always qualify last, slowest, and never make up for it. By changing it to how it works now, letting everyone run on the same or similar fuel in qualifying, suddenly you could spring a high-fuel stint further up the grid and make that competitive.

Until we introduce the safety car I really don't think it will do anything to spice up the racing. I think qualifying might end up more exciting than the race, and the race will just be a procession, much like it is / has been in F1 for years. Qualifying's gain becomes the race's loss. Before you know it, there is an "optimal" strategy, which is to run SS or S and low-ish fuel for stint 1, and everyone does it, because the advantage of being further up the pack is too great to ignore. Running heavy at the back behind slow cars ends up making no sense, and you have to waste boost to get past, by which time you're completely out of the running.

Many suggestions, like this one, at a glance seem to be obvious no-brainer solutions to big challenges. "Just change this and that will happen, simple!". We hear it on just about every topic, but in practice, it turns out nothing like you would expect. Even when we think things through in detail, it's never quite the same as when it goes live.

I understand that in leagues that are ridiculously competitive qualifying can seem erratic, but it's still a simulation with mostly factors within your control, and in some ways it adds excitement to the results and races, the element of surprise. I know that's not a conclusive answer, or a good enough reason on it's own, but combined with the fact that we've actually tried this and seen what happens I think we need to consider other options.

Will you introduce safety car? :/

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medal 5000
4 years 280 days ago
Hi everyone. First of all, thanks to both Adam and Jack for the positive discussion. I think it still pretty relevant since I'm following and watching other leagues when I'm not running, and I'm also frequently seeing an imbalance on qualifying still. Hence, I decided to requestion the same thread... Although Basford's answer might be pretty complete and I agree with him regarding the element of surprise, I honestly think the current qualifying mode is a little poor. Only one lap sounds a little strange for me. Perhaps 3 to 4 laps might get the qualies results more linear throughout the season since a very focused driver might get better results than a regular/good focused driver, for example (when in analysis very strong teams/elite leagues). That element of surprise is good, but it might be an element of surprise, not a steady behaviour. What I'm trying to say is that I would only guess that having 4 laps, for example, per qualies, may turn things more linear in the long term. And even though in elite leagues theses levels are quite similar, I'm sure the teams and drivers have their particular traits which might dictate the common behaviour of the starting grid during the championship. For me, it is very clear as well that 1 lap opens the door for unusual results on a regular basis, and it would be pretty awesome having, still in a balanced league, out of the record pole position drivers.

*Also, does anyone know why is not a habit for managers to choose almost always SS tyres for qualifying, like in the real-life? I'm always seeing 99% of people starting with M and in a good amount of races, I could see that drivers who start, only them, with S or SS, winning the race.
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medal 5000
4 years 280 days ago

Luiz

*Also, does anyone know why is not a habit for managers to choose almost always SS tyres for qualifying, like in the real-life? I'm always seeing 99% of people starting with M and in a good amount of races, I could see that drivers who start, only them, with S or SS, winning the race.


The compound used for qualy is the same compound chosen for the start stint.  Tracks like Monaco and maybe Brazil we can get away with using SS in the 1st stint and therefore in qualy.  Temperatures would have to be pretty hot to start with Mediums, but I've seen it happen.
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medal 5000
4 years 280 days ago
I love that idea 
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medal 5000
4 years 279 days ago

Memo

Luiz

*Also, does anyone know why is not a habit for managers to choose almost always SS tyres for qualifying, like in the real-life? I'm always seeing 99% of people starting with M and in a good amount of races, I could see that drivers who start, only them, with S or SS, winning the race.


The compound used for qualy is the same compound chosen for the start stint.  Tracks like Monaco and maybe Brazil we can get away with using SS in the 1st stint and therefore in qualy.  Temperatures would have to be pretty hot to start with Mediums, but I've seen it happen.


Yes, I'm frequently seeing S, M and sometimes even H tyres in the 1st stint. Using the SS would clearly guarantee some P1s, so that didn't make a lot of sense for me, but I'm also noticing that it is normal to start with slower tyres in iGP since the SS wears too fast. It didn't make sense for me because, in real F1, drivers always choose SS. Perhaps the fact that team levels here are very levelled makes an M tyre choose okay since one probably cannot open a huge gap for the 2nd car when using SS, for example.

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medal 5000
4 years 261 days ago
I really like this idea. We must stop with the complete randomness of quali and introduce it to race strategy. Otherwise it's pointless.
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medal 5000
4 years 261 days ago
Even though the SS tyres are generally faster, people choose to start on M to reduce in some cases the number of pitstops.
The SS would need to be about a second per lap quicker to make up for the pitstop.
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medal 5000
4 years 260 days ago

Andrew
Even though the SS tyres are generally faster, people choose to start on M to reduce in some cases the number of pitstops.
The SS would need to be about a second per lap quicker to make up for the pitstop.



???? The avg pit stop is at least 17 seconds.... how often can you go 17 laps/stint?  Imo, there's no strategy in starting with M's; you'll be lucky if you qualify PL 10-15 depending on the track. 
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medal 5000
4 years 259 days ago
The races I've been in are 50% distance, so often can one stop, if the temp is hot enough start on Mediums and change to Hard, while those that start on S or SS pit earlier, which means they generally make a second stop.
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medal 5000
4 years 258 days ago

Andrew
The races I've been in are 50% distance, so often can one stop, if the temp is hot enough start on Mediums and change to Hard, while those that start on S or SS pit earlier, which means they generally make a second stop.



I race in a 50% league, you start on M`s, you might as well don`t bother showing up...One might manage to climb up to top 10 if lucky.....  We often switch to M`s but that`s a far better strat than starting on M`s. 
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medal 5000
4 years 257 days ago
Memo

Andrew
The races I've been in are 50% distance, so often can one stop, if the temp is hot enough start on Mediums and change to Hard, while those that start on S or SS pit earlier, which means they generally make a second stop.



I race in a 50% league, you start on M`s, you might as well don`t bother showing up...One might manage to climb up to top 10 if lucky.....  We often switch to M`s but that`s a far better strat than starting on M`s. 


The last race in my League, the top two in the Elite both started on M and switched to H tyres, they qualified 7th and 10th, but got to the lead before making their only pitstop.
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medal 5000
4 years 220 days ago
The qualifying issue ties directly into another problem that is getting more serious with the addition of the two new tracks to the game. New content is awesome, don't get me wrong. It is just as important though to shine some light on any issues that are potentially introduced with everything added/changed in the game.

Here's hoping Jack takes notice as I put thought and effort into my post to help improve the game wherever possible.
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medal 5000
4 years 220 days ago
Why not allow your self to choose 1-4 quali laps. Laps wear the car not the fuel you start with.  So more laps higher chance to qualify high. Bit worn car will potentially hinder race.  You might choose one lap and qualify first. But you might not.  You choose.  Your practice consistency would make you choose your strategy.  This should be taken in to account.  Also laps on other tyres than race tyres would skew consistency. So practice means more. 
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medal 5000
4 years 220 days ago

Antony
Why not allow your self to choose 1-4 quali laps. Laps wear the car not the fuel you start with.  So more laps higher chance to qualify high. Bit worn car will potentially hinder race.  You might choose one lap and qualify first. But you might not.  You choose.  Your practice consistency would make you choose your strategy.  This should be taken in to account.  Also laps on other tyres than race tyres would skew consistency. So practice means more. 



This wouldn't solve the problem at all. It would get even worse in fact. We would still be stuck with random qualifying orders. 1 driver could nail his 1 lap while another driver fails miserably in 4 attempts, starts from the midfield and now has a worn engine so he will get passed by everyone starting from the midfield that just used 1 run over the course of the race.
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medal 5000
4 years 220 days ago
I don't see the issue with the Qualifying the way it is now.
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medal 5000
4 years 220 days ago
Andrew
I don't see the issue with the Qualifying the way it is now.



You will have no issues with this if you're a lower level manager and manager level difference aswell as skill (reputation) and game understanding margins are big. The issue arises when players of equal skill and manager level compete against each other in a league. I'm driving in a league with an average reputation of higher than 9.5k and the competition is crazy, imagine 32 Mercedes F1 cars battling against each other for a full season. The margins are so tiny that any big random factors like the current qualifying can pre-determine if you are able to win or not. This kills the enjoyment of a otherwise great game for managers that have reached the endgame at Level 18-20 and want to fairly compete against each other.


If you'd like to understand the issue more I suggest reading the indepth forum post that I linked 4 posts above.
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medal 5000
4 years 220 days ago
We need a qualifying system that takes into account the fuel load. Only this can limitate randomness 
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