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Car 2 is always quicker in qualifying

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medal 5000
4 years 72 days ago

Gustavo
So, accounts that have played a 1-car League are cursed once they join a 2-car League.

You probably found the root cause of this issue João...


Some people (like me) have consistent quali problems on 1-car leagues, could it be because they joined at least once a 2 car league? Maybe the issues are connected?

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medal 5167 Super Mod
4 years 72 days ago
Due to obvious reasons (you don't have 2 qualifying times in same race to compare), I can't say whether you are suffering from that issue or this is another one.
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medal 5000
4 years 71 days ago
Race 1 (Australia):
Car 2 - Position 7 - 1:25.466 - Supersoft
Car 1 - Position 8 - 1:25.466 - Supersoft


Race 3 (Azerbaijan):
Car 2 - Position 6 - 1:38.662 - Soft
Car 1 - Position 7 - 1:38.662 - Soft


Race 4 (Russia):
Car 2 - Position 10 - 1:40.330 - Soft
Car 1 - Position 11 - 1:40.330 - Soft

Race 5 (Valencia):
Car 2 - Position 20 - 1:38.793 - Soft
Car 1 - Position 21 - 1:38.793 - Soft


Race 6 (Austria Wet):
Car 1 - Position 3 - 1:06.658 - Wet
Car 2 - Position 4 - 1:06.659 - Wet

Race 7 (Japan)
Car 2 - Position 9 - 1:32:117 - Soft
Car 1 - Position 10 - 1:32:118 - Soft

Race 8 (GB 09)
Car 2 - Position 5 - 1:20:527 - Supersoft
Car 1 - Position 6 - 1:20:527 - Supersoft

Race 9 (Brazil)
Car 1 - Position 8 - 1:13:922 - Soft
Car 2 - Position 9 - 1:13:922 - Soft

My both drivers had set same quali times in almost all the qualifying sessions. But My 2nd Car is 7-2 Outqualified My 1st Car.
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medal 5000
4 years 71 days ago
Wet qualifiying doesn't count.  And that could be the key to detect the issue. 
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medal 5000
4 years 71 days ago

dan
Wet qualifiying doesn't count.  And that could be the key to detect the issue. 


It think it is. My equal drivers qualified different times in wet conditions while in dry conditions they always clock the same time. They are equal in attributes, weight and height, only difference is age (1 year difference).

Which leaves some options imo
1) in wet conditions driver errors are still active
2) age has an effect on wet quali
3) more decimals in height might explain some difference

Fyi driver in car one was faster, he’s 30 years, difference of 0.006 with car two, driver of car two is 31 years old
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medal 5281
4 years 71 days ago
I don't know why but I had the complete opposite of you guys:

As per Gustavo's assumption, I raced in a 1 car league for 1 race only and already switched leagues after it.

So, my drivers are a few centimeters apart in height with a difference of 2 adjustments in ride height, but they were lapping similarly in qualifying with the taller one in car 1. But in Hungary my Car 2 was 0.233s slower and 10 places behind in quali (P14 and P25)!

https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=28948006&tab=race
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medal 5167 Super Mod
4 years 71 days ago
Hi Juanito, you prove that my assumption is wrong, so I'm risking that from list.


What happens to your qualifying lap when you switch drivers (put taller one in car #2)?

If you did that already and it went badly, you only need to tell us here. Please don't repeat anything that can be bad for your team.
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medal 5000
4 years 71 days ago
I will do the swap for the next race ??
I didn't meant to say your assumption was wrong. I only said I might have had an adverse effect from it, I guess.
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medal 5281
4 years 70 days ago
Car 2 was now 0.016s faster with the taller driver ?
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medal 5167 Super Mod
4 years 69 days ago
What happens if you train Campos to 51kg ?
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medal 4985 Moderator
4 years 69 days ago

dan
Wet qualifiying doesn't count.  And that could be the key to detect the issue. 

I also have somewhat the suspicion that those bugged qualifyings might somehow run their lap with the performance of the next harder (perhaps softer in case of those much faster stray times of few drivers in other reports) compound than actually set, and displayed in the results. It might not happen in rain as both tyres used there are pretty much their own group of tyres in itself. But had no time looking into results for clues for and against this thesis.
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medal 5000
4 years 69 days ago
OK ;)
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medal 5281
4 years 69 days ago
Gustavo
What happens if you train Campos to 51kg ?

I say give Campos his Sandwiches, Pizzas and every single carbohydrates back to take his weight back to 52Kg ?
I did late training and healing sections (I did spent some tokens as ads were offline). Can this be the cause due to server synchronization? ?


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medal 5167 Super Mod
4 years 69 days ago
Oh, but that's a very tight grid.

My drivers usually qualify with a difference higher than 0.080s, it would be a nightmare in your League.

I think this line-up is the best we can try. Final measure would be firing him, although I doubt it would have some positive effect.
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medal 5281
4 years 69 days ago
With a time gap of 0.08s I could be P2 and P20, it would be as bad as it was already ?

Most part of the complains here seemed to be about tight grids (I didn't checked everyone's qualifyings, I only knew Leo's case from S58 of OFZ) and having to deal with 2 different races at the same time, one keeping it with the leading pack and the other being a recovery from mid-field or lower, which results in lost of concentration as the one I had today and lost precious DRSs throughout the race.

If the gaps were normally spread in the entire grid (similar to Merc's gaps in qualifying) with none or few cars in between the drivers it wouldn't be as bad as it is today. But since the gaps are quite small between P1 and P20+ on the same tyres (as Interliga de Campeones has for example, although it's a 1 car league) you end up with a big gap to manage and have to decide if you boost your way up fast with the lower car and suffer in the latter stages, deal with the situation as it is or forgetting the second car almost completely and trying to get a good result with 1 car less than the opponents as Red Bull is doing today.

About the last bit, he wasn't any worse than Souza in qualifying until today and car 2 only lost by big gaps in Hungary and Germany this season. But If you guarantee me that I will have him back, his Championship points and the tokens + money I will have to use to make the switchs in my driver line-up I could try and test it as soon as possible ?
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medal 5167 Super Mod
4 years 69 days ago
I'm not a dev, therefore I can't promise/guarantee that.

I'm only trying to figure it out ways to workaround this awful problem.
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medal 5281
4 years 67 days ago
Campos was now back ahead by 0.014s on car 2. It's all over the place those times hehe But this time I think it may have been the ride height the reason for it. But Richard qualified in P5 and P23 (0.117s) with his drivers having the same setup.

Can you confirm with the devs this isn't something related to server synchronization or server instability in peak hours of racing? Or the race simulation not giving everyone the same outlap preparation to open their qualifying laps?
Maybe track evolution, like in the race, can also be a factor if his worse driver was one of the 1st to open the lap while the other one was the last while the rest of the pack were closer, so could you ask the devs to review our order of qualifying in those races: Hungary (raceid= 28948006) me and Noah; USA (28948009) Richard and Mario; Germany (28948012) me, Jarno and Jas; Italy (28948015) Jarno, Gert and Richard?
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medal 5167 Super Mod
4 years 67 days ago
I read one of devs saying track is green for all cars (I don't think that has changed).

On last Friday's night, after a very good discussion with me, Kevin "supermod" Bissell and José "omnipresent" Trujillo, it was suggested that driver's perfect setup could be misleading us to believe that a track didn't have an ideal setup. Like you said: "I think it may have been the ride height the reason for it."

So, I decided at my own risk start testing same setup for both drivers. My line-up is composed by 1.89m and 1.65m drivers, so with that information you already know their setups have 8 points difference for ride height.

For Canadian iGP, I tried taller driver setup and guess what they qualified with very close times (here you have qualifying report link: https://igpmanager.com/app/d=result&id=28992141&tab=qualifying). Driver using "wrong" setup did qualify in front of driver using "perfect" setup.

Let's not draw any conclusions yet. I'll keep doing it and updating you every day.
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medal 5000
4 years 67 days ago
If the one point difference between those drivers (one has 19 composure) explains the difference in quali time, that might be the solution.

It would also explain why some believe taller drivers are faster, maybe perfect setup is taller driver setup

Would mean our drivers have been telling lies about perfect setup though 
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medal 5281
4 years 67 days ago (Last edited by Juanito Jones 4 years 67 days ago)
I think this partially explains those little differences in qualifying, not those huge gaps like mine in Hungary and Richard's in Italy. But then, if you receive a wrench giving you a fake "Ideal Setup" it hurts you bit and there isn't much you can do about it like my car 1 setup for Monaco which I couldn't modify to test it and was 0.007s slower and 1 place down in a difficult to overtake track.
I remember Kevin and Gert once saying (It's a 1 year old thread, therefore before qualifying changes, https://igpmanager.com/forum-thread/25606) that your driver will get slower with a different setup other than the ideal one, so you busted that myth for me now. I know it wasn't their fault as they can only rely on their own experience and don't have access under-the-hood of the game. That's why we need devs clarifications to those situations.
I will try to run similar tests to yours Gustavo.
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