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[ROUNDTABLE] Tyre 'Cliffs' Update

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Dick Dastardly
2 years 120 days ago (Last edited by Dick Dastardly 2 years 120 days ago)

Oliver

The new tyre updates are not realistic as i was 40 seconds ahead in my league race with 10 laps to go. When I realised the guy ahead had 10 lap younger tyres. My tyres were 60% and the guy ahead ended up winning by 18 seconds as he gained like 10 seconds a lap towards the start of his stint. The old tyre cliff was realistic, just make new tyres about 1 seconds faster and it will be fine. I'm fuming that I lost my streak of races

So what you are saying is you mismanaged your tyres and your opponent didn’t? There is no way you would lose time like that unless you have managed your tyre and stint strategy poorly. Sounds like ran your tyres far too long, although a bit unclear as you said you were 40 secs ahead and then say someone was in front of you with 10 lap newer tyres?

Also, if you don’t train up your drivers stamina you are always going to struggle late on in a race.

Ben Cabral
2 years 120 days ago

Hi Guys,
I have to say this is the most interesting update we have had in the past year (or more), active managers are overjoyed with the realism of the tire behavior. Just one complain though, Hard tire needs a touch of durability. for Azerbaijan Hard tires have the same percentage wear as the Mediums, while being 0.5scs slower.

great work though.
Thanks
BC

Matteo Capriotti
2 years 120 days ago

Patrick

Matteo

Patrick

Some more feedback for the devs.

Had a 100% race, no refuelling in Hungary, 26 degrees. In which the Softs at 70% started to post the same lap times as the Hards, became slower at around 65%.

In my opinion this is absolutely wrong and completely unrealistic. Softs should in no circumstances be slower than the Hard tyre at anywhere above 50%, it just doesn't make sense.

Again, I like what you're trying to do with this update, but balancing is absolutely needed here. At these kinds of scalings, the game becomes almost broken.

Broken? Yes but not because of what you are saying, before the update no one used H, now is almost the same for SS, you need just some time to adapt to new tyres performance.

If you read my comment above you can understand what i'm trying to say

I'm sorry but in what world does a tyre compound lose performance to another compound 2 tiers harder/slower after only wearing to about 65%?

Unfortunately for the very reason I stated the update is broken. But it can be fixed very easily with some rebalancing and then it would be a much better update.

You are very selective there without see the big picture...

Dario Jp
2 years 120 days ago

Oliver

The new tyre updates are not realistic as i was 40 seconds ahead in my league race with 10 laps to go. When I realised the guy ahead had 10 lap younger tyres. My tyres were 60% and the guy ahead ended up winning by 18 seconds as he gained like 10 seconds a lap towards the start of his stint. The old tyre cliff was realistic, just make new tyres about 1 seconds faster and it will be fine. I'm fuming that I lost my streak of races

This isn't true what so ever, post tyre % of yours and his. tyres do not drop off at 60% no way he was 10 seconds a lap faster.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
2 years 120 days ago

If Oliver is comparing IGP to real life F1 he is absolutely correct that the tyres are not realistic. But on the other hand the previous ones were also unrealistic at 100% race distance.

Oliver races once per week on a Sunday so his last race was his first encounter with the new tyre characteristics.

His race yesterday was the first of the season. He is in a rookie tier with a CD two levels lower than his team who is weak in Tyre Economy! So for the race he would have had a TE design of about 5 and used a two stop strategy in a 100% Australia race.

His final stint was 23 laps on mediums and his opponent (who ran a 5 stop strategy) final stint was 13 laps on mediums. Over the last few laps Oliver's opponent was indeed about 15 seconds a lap faster.

This is something I mentioned in the volunteer Discord server, casual players who race 100% and set their strategy based on their knowledge of real F1 are going to be disappointed. The "cliff" update has made the tyres even further removed from reality at 100% race distance to appease the people who were complaining that 50% no refuelling only required one stop.

You race half the distance and only require one pit stop... Isn't that to be expected? No, it's better to complain about it and force those that race 100% to spend more time in the pits than they do on the track.

John Doe
2 years 119 days ago

I will never understand why the tyres are not the same for every race length. That's the biggest mistake. Rescaling their wear according to race length doesn't make sense.

If you are on 50% races, you know that softer tyres and less stops are needed. Why is there an effort to recreate 100% strategies in shorter races?

Today I did a quick race and supersoft are senseless.
Out lap -31%, second lap -24% and tyres are gone...

In my country we say the blanket is short.
You cannot make everyone happy. It's time to have different tyres for each distance or the same tyres for each distance. Rescaling wear will never work.

Kevin Bissell Super Mod
2 years 119 days ago (Last edited by Kevin Bissell 2 years 119 days ago)

Giovanni

If you are on 50% races, you know that softer tyres and less stops are needed. Why is there an effort to recreate 100% strategies in shorter races?

Very well said Giovanni.

In any case trying to recreate 100% strategies at shorter distances by tyre wear scaling alone won't work because pit losses and fuel consumption are not scaled.

Don't get me wrong, the new tyre characteristics are an interesting challenge for a few weeks until the best strategies are once again discovered, but 5 stint 75% races and 6 or 7 stint 100% races are ludicrous.

Michael Craig
2 years 119 days ago

Sorry but I disagree the objective of this update was not to reproduce 100% races at shorter race distances and that isn’t what it has done either.

I do think some further balancing is required but overall this feels like a positive step to me and enables further positive steps.

Just to address some of the realism complaints, I don’t know if it helps people much but in the early 2010’s i remember F1 running compounds that behaved quite similar to this later update. with extreme cliffs built into the tyre compound to produce more stops. There were instances of drivers losing 4-8 seconds a lap having gone over the cliff.

This hasn’t carried through to todayS racing, I think there have been design changes but also the teams got on top of that design pretty quickly and learnt how to manage the tyres to extend them for as long as possible, as they always seem to end up doing.

Dick Dastardly
2 years 119 days ago (Last edited by Dick Dastardly 2 years 119 days ago)

Michael

Sorry but I disagree the objective of this update was not to reproduce 100% races at shorter race distances and that isn’t what it has done either.

I do think some further balancing is required but overall this feels like a positive step to me and enables further positive steps.

Just to address some of the realism complaints, I don’t know if it helps people much but in the early 2010’s i remember F1 running compounds that behaved quite similar to this later update. with extreme cliffs built into the tyre compound to produce more stops. There were instances of drivers losing 4-8 seconds a lap having gone over the cliff.

This hasn’t carried through to todayS racing, I think there have been design changes but also the teams got on top of that design pretty quickly and learnt how to manage the tyres to extend them for as long as possible, as they always seem to end up doing.

You have sort of hit the nail on the head here. F1 introduced compounds that had extreme cliff edges to create more pit stops as I believe some secondary sponsors were complaining that lack of pits meant their livery was rarely seen on tv. The changes weren’t well received by some.

In iGP the new tyres with cliff edge were introduced mainly as a result of 50% racers complaining about no refuelling requiring only one stop. The new changes haven’t been well received by some.

As I said in another thread ‘be careful what you wish for’. These changes mean racing in a different way and just like F1 teams adapted to the new tyre changes so must we.

Whether 5 or 6 stopping in 100% is a good or bad thing is purely down to personal opinion, but managers who expect to do the same strategies after the update and expect the same outcome are deceiving themselves.

Kevin is right that most managers will eventually adapt by all running the same strategy and that is the game’s weakness as it is essentially a maths puzzle with push level management.

Bud Oil
2 years 119 days ago (Last edited by Bud Oil 2 years 119 days ago)

Now Soft are SS and Medium are the Soft: S = SS. M = S.

Congratulations for deleting SS-strategy. H is useless under 35°C and we are making pit stop on every 6/7 laps. You tried to make happy people who played 25% but it was not the perfect solution. Now there is only a way to play a stint of each compound. The undercut is too strong and now the game is monostrategic. Your aim should be to make different strategies more balanced. You could make it by increasing 0,5% of wear on each compound in the last version. Now if you pit on 1 lap later you take 3s undercut = monostrategic game

Tyler Sholtis #1

And... Yes I didn't ask for changing the tyre wear as I have found a way with TE. It was enough increasing the % of tyre wear to have more pits. I seriously don't understand this 75-50% system really.

P.S. The word "fix" doesn't mean what I saw in this piffupdate whatever it was

John Doe
2 years 119 days ago (Last edited by John Doe 2 years 119 days ago)

100% race 2X
1 car 2 tires No refueling

Last GP: Mexico

Winner 5 Pits SS (9laps) S (13laps) /S/S/S/S (12(laps)
____________________________________________

The Key is Pit before 50% tires or even 60%

Not having fun !!! But It is what it is !!!

Maybe making tires more sensible to design points !!!
still in Mexico
Tires points (my data - 100% race)
037 points SS 8% S 5% M 4% H 3%
100 points SS 8% S 5% M 3% H 3%
103 TO 167 POINTS SS 7% S 5% M 3% H 3%

So, @ lower level tires points (below 50) could be SS 10% for example. Between 50/100 8% and so on.
Same with Softs, Mediuns and Hard.
The manager that have better tyre design point will have a good plus !!!

Salty One
2 years 119 days ago

RACER

100% race 2X
1 car 2 tires No refueling

Last GP: Mexico

Winner 5 Pits SS (9laps) S (13laps) /S/S/S (12(laps)
____________________________________________

The Key is Pit before 50% tires or even 60%

Not having fun !!! But It is what it is !!!

This game is not supposed to be realistic to official F1. It is a strategy game that players have to adapt to. Why do so many people assume that this is a game of realism?

The devs have a limited source of revenue and do the best they can to appease the community (quite often in a way that none of us are pleased about).
This new update, even though it has some serious flaws, is actually quite enjoyable. It is making you think how to adjust your management skills. So what if you have make extra pit stops, this is not a realistic F1 game.

Light Turbo
2 years 119 days ago

Salty

RACER

100% race 2X
1 car 2 tires No refueling

Last GP: Mexico

Winner 5 Pits SS (9laps) S (13laps) /S/S/S (12(laps)
____________________________________________

The Key is Pit before 50% tires or even 60%

Not having fun !!! But It is what it is !!!

This game is not supposed to be realistic to official F1. It is a strategy game that players have to adapt to. Why do so many people assume that this is a game of realism?

The devs have a limited source of revenue and do the best they can to appease the community (quite often in a way that none of us are pleased about).
This new update, even though it has some serious flaws, is actually quite enjoyable. It is making you think how to adjust your management skills. So what if you have make extra pit stops, this is not a realistic F1 game.

GOALS OF THE UPDATE:

Broaden the range of strategies and nerf 1-stop strategies.Improved balance between overcut and undercut.Increase the attention managers must pay to competitors strategies, to defend against undercuts and overcuts.Improve realism of a tyre’s performance lifespan - prevent tyres from running competitively beyond 20% condition.Increase realism in how tyre degradation impacts pace - balanced using real-world motorsport data, and refined in consultation with numerous managers from all sectors of the community, who participated in races and helped us to tweak the balance.

John Doe
2 years 119 days ago

Broaden the range of strategies NO because you cannot use low push levels to have longer stints in both refuel modes

nerf 1-stop strategies YES

Improved balance between overcut and undercut NO because undercut>>>overcut

Increase the attention managers must pay to competitors strategies, to defend against undercuts and overcuts YES

Improve realism of a tyre’s performance lifespan - prevent tyres from running competitively beyond 20% condition YES

Increase realism in how tyre degradation impacts pace - balanced using real-world motorsport data YES

This update is a partial success. More realism in tyre behaviour but less possible strategies. As of now only two tyres can be used.

Patrick Black
2 years 119 days ago

The

Archie

Patrick

Matteo

This is very selective and not generalized.

I for 1 have not experienced losing as much pace as you have with S vs H. From the races I've done, S & M have proved to be the primes while H was wayyy slower.

That is my experience as well racing at both 100% and 75%. How anyone can think Hards are ever as fast as softs is beyond me, but just goes to show we are all very selective in our view of this game. So far I think iGP have had every possible combination of feedback both negative and positive on this update.

I don't think, I know... because I raced it live. And I think every possible combination of feedback is a good thing, no? You don't want an echo chamber of just sycophantic comments, that way the game never improves.

I mentioned this in a previous update, but I would dearly love to know who the testers are, and from on what options of the game they tested it on. On an earlier update it was revealed the testers were all from 1 car leagues.

One of the great things about iGP (it's many options of how to play the game; 1 car, 2 car, various speeds and race lengths) I am starting to see is also becoming its weakness. You cannot possibly please everyone. What may work well in a 1 car league will not be good for a 2 car league. What may work well for 25% distance may be disastrous for 100% distance.

It may just be time for the hardworking devs to just say "Hey, this is the game we are making, this is how it's going to be, we don't require feedback anymore. These are our testers and this is how they race, get used to this", instead of trying to please a little bit of everyone.

Dario Jp
2 years 119 days ago

Patrick

The

Archie

Patrick

Matteo

This is very selective and not generalized.

I for 1 have not experienced losing as much pace as you have with S vs H. From the races I've done, S & M have proved to be the primes while H was wayyy slower.

That is my experience as well racing at both 100% and 75%. How anyone can think Hards are ever as fast as softs is beyond me, but just goes to show we are all very selective in our view of this game. So far I think iGP have had every possible combination of feedback both negative and positive on this update.

I don't think, I know... because I raced it live. And I think every possible combination of feedback is a good thing, no? You don't want an echo chamber of just sycophantic comments, that way the game never improves.

I mentioned this in a previous update, but I would dearly love to know who the testers are, and from on what options of the game they tested it on. On an earlier update it was revealed the testers were all from 1 car leagues.

One of the great things about iGP (it's many options of how to play the game; 1 car, 2 car, various speeds and race lengths) I am starting to see is also becoming its weakness. You cannot possibly please everyone. What may work well in a 1 car league will not be good for a 2 car league. What may work well for 25% distance may be disastrous for 100% distance.

It may just be time for the hardworking devs to just say "Hey, this is the game we are making, this is how it's going to be, we don't require feedback anymore. These are our testers and this is how they race, get used to this", instead of trying to please a little bit of everyone.

The problem is the players, not the Devs or funding. all players hate change, especially ones that win every race. For them every idea and update is stupid to them because it messes up their boring routine they got to win. This is the best update I've seen in well over 5 years, it's an actual gameplay change that works. Not sure why you all can't just try a new strategy, technically the old tyres was a cheat/exploit and it's now been fixed. All that's left for a great racing experience is to fix the hard tyre to make them competitive ? these two things are the bread and butter, fundimentals of a racing game, please please do not revert it back.

Kevin Bissell
2 years 119 days ago

Patrick

The

Archie

Patrick

Matteo

This is very selective and not generalized.

I for 1 have not experienced losing as much pace as you have with S vs H. From the races I've done, S & M have proved to be the primes while H was wayyy slower.

That is my experience as well racing at both 100% and 75%. How anyone can think Hards are ever as fast as softs is beyond me, but just goes to show we are all very selective in our view of this game. So far I think iGP have had every possible combination of feedback both negative and positive on this update.

"On an earlier update it was revealed the testers were all from 1 car leagues"

Where was this revealed? Can you point us in the direction of where this was posted?

Patrick Black
2 years 119 days ago

Dario

The problem is the players, not the Devs or funding. all players hate change, especially ones that win every race. For them every idea and update is stupid to them because it messes up their boring routine they got to win. This is the best update I've seen in well over 5 years, it's an actual gameplay change that works. Not sure why you all can't just try a new strategy, technically the old tyres was a cheat/exploit and it's now been fixed. All that's left for a great racing experience is to fix the hard tyre to make them competitive ? these two things are the bread and butter, fundimentals of a racing game, please please do not revert it back.

First of all I never said the problem was the devs, infact I have described them as hardworking, and the update as possibly very good with a bit of balancing.

"All players hate the update, especially the ones that win every race", well... which one is it? All players or the ones who win, because not all players win, infact only one in 16 win most races.

The thing is, this game is grounded in an element of realism, not necessarily to F1 mind you, but an element of realism in actual real world performance etc. And the problem I have with this update on a 100% race distance league is, it is not realistic and far too unbalanced. Like I said before, in no way would a soft tyre at 65% lose performance to a hard tyre. Unless they are going for what F1 did many years ago with cliffs built in to encourage more pit stops, in which case we probably should have been told that was the case. The update notes said tyres were like new down to 75%, scaled wear down to 50%, cliff below 50%, uncompetitive at around 35%... That would have been absolutely fine with me... But that is not what I'm seeing from the races I've done. And I'm not the only one. Again, with a smidge of balancing I thinkn the update would be great.

@Archie Bald, I will try to find my comments. Will edit this with the link when I find it.

M. Truche Moderator
2 years 118 days ago

I guess you are talking about this thread

Dario Jp
2 years 118 days ago

Patrick

Dario

The problem is the players, not the Devs or funding. all players hate change, especially ones that win every race. For them every idea and update is stupid to them because it messes up their boring routine they got to win. This is the best update I've seen in well over 5 years, it's an actual gameplay change that works. Not sure why you all can't just try a new strategy, technically the old tyres was a cheat/exploit and it's now been fixed. All that's left for a great racing experience is to fix the hard tyre to make them competitive ? these two things are the bread and butter, fundimentals of a racing game, please please do not revert it back.

First of all I never said the problem was the devs, infact I have described them as hardworking, and the update as possibly very good with a bit of balancing.

"All players hate the update, especially the ones that win every race", well... which one is it? All players or the ones who win, because not all players win, infact only one in 16 win most races.

The thing is, this game is grounded in an element of realism, not necessarily to F1 mind you, but an element of realism in actual real world performance etc. And the problem I have with this update on a 100% race distance league is, it is not realistic and far too unbalanced. Like I said before, in no way would a soft tyre at 65% lose performance to a hard tyre. Unless they are going for what F1 did many years ago with cliffs built in to encourage more pit stops, in which case we probably should have been told that was the case. The update notes said tyres were like new down to 75%, scaled wear down to 50%, cliff below 50%, uncompetitive at around 35%... That would have been absolutely fine with me... But that is not what I'm seeing from the races I've done. And I'm not the only one. Again, with a smidge of balancing I thinkn the update would be great.

@Archie Bald, I will try to find my comments. Will edit this with the link when I find it.

Tyres are competitive 100-50% then drops off, but not dramatically.. now that is realistic.. what do you want SS with no drop off at 20%? now that's very unrealistic.. in F1 tyres do drop off early so this update is as close to realism as you're gonna get. Explain how it's unbalanced? Manage your race better, take a risk run further to have fresher tyres towards the end or visa versa. I don't understand the complaining how has it ruined the racing? I'm not attacking or being a idiot these are genuine questions as I've found the update to be very good.

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