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[ROUNDTABLE] Tyre 'Cliffs' Update

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medal 5000 Super Mod
2 years 49 days ago
Dario

No refueling in my league and the update is perfect, it's the cry babies who dominate that don't like the change. Please don't revert it back 


Just to say it is not within the power of any volunteer to revert it back and in any case I agree, I don't think the Devs should revert.

My personal opinions after a week of new tyre characteristics:

I don't think the rebalance necessarily improved the game, it's just made it different. It mixed things up for a few races and allowed people to pull off a few surprise wins but very soon the hardcore managers have worked out the new optimum strategy and the status quo is restored, the managers who dominated before the update will once again dominate after the update.

From what I experienced so far I'm not convinced the update has allowed alternative strategies to be viable. After a few seasons the best strategies will be known and more often than not it will be a copy/paste of the previous season's winning strategy at the same race. It's not the fault of the update, this has always been the case and will remain so until someone can make the tyre wear and grip MUCH more sensitive to ambient temperature. If this could be achieved then races at different times of the day at the same circuit would require different strategies and there would be strategy variation across the year as temperatures change.

I don't think that 100% races should require so many pit stops, mainly because it is counter intuitive to newcomers to the game. This was already an issue before the update but the update has often added another pit stop to a strategy that already required too many.

Making TE development more effective at the higher ranges would give people something to take into consideration when developing their cars.

I share other people's concerns about the Medium and Hard compounds as winter approaches. They will become unusable at low temperatures and feel this is something that needs to be addressed with some urgency.

I race 1 team in 100% / Offline / 1-car / Refuelling allowed league and another team in 75% / Online / 2-car / No refuelling league and it is clear that different approaches are required for these two dissimilar formats.

If people really want to mix things up it seems to me that this can be done by the league host alternating each season:


  • race distance

  • number of races per season (different design development path)

  • refuelling on-off

  • tyre rule on-off. 


This would provide a large number of permutations that can't be achieved with a fixed set of tyre characteristics.

Just my opinion, nothing to do with being a Mod and is not necessarily the views of other volunteers or the IGP Staff.


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medal 5013
2 years 49 days ago

RACER
USA will be the next GP
DP tires from 74 to 193 have No change at all to improve compounds 
SS 8% / S 5% / M 4% / H 3%

DP tires after 74 is useless !!! ?

Again, the % tires wear need changes as well to balance the "cliff" !!!
Am I wrong ???  


And cooling from 4 to 50 in a rookie league, there is no improvement.


@iGP please focus on these absurd things!
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medal 5000
2 years 49 days ago

Kevin
He's talking about the number of Design Points (DP) assigned to the Tyre Economy attribute.

The suggestion being that once you hit 74 there is nothing to be gained by assigning more of your valuable design points to this attribute.



How can you have 193 in tyre economy? Wasn't the max 100?
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medal 5000
2 years 49 days ago
Ángel

Kevin
He's talking about the number of Design Points (DP) assigned to the Tyre Economy attribute.

The suggestion being that once you hit 74 there is nothing to be gained by assigning more of your valuable design points to this attribute.



How can you have 193 in tyre economy? Wasn't the max 100?

Rookie 50
Pro      100
ELITE   200 


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medal 5000
2 years 49 days ago (Last edited by Alessandro Bonifacivs 2 years 49 days ago)
My feedback is that i appreciate the tire change but i think there are some things wrong:
- ss tires are currently useless as they wear out
too early
- hard tires are not usable because they lose too much temperature
- in general, forcing the tire change due to the tires losing temperature does not seem quite right to me. In fact, in winter, with low temperatures, we will be forced to do a lot of pits or we will have to race with frozen tires.

In addition to this, there are old problems but you have to do things gradually (i.e., first, rebalance the tires):
- tire economy should be relevant
- the drs should be less powerful
- overtaking should be easier 
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medal 4870
2 years 48 days ago
Who talks about "winning strategies" doesn't take any considerations about conservative strategies. If in any moment of the season I am not able to win because of the development of the car I MUST HAVE the possibility to take some points with a conservative strategy (1 pit less) that in this case it's very impossible if EVERYONE does the same strategy. It's a managerial game or what???

TE was a skill if the tyre reached 30% like the previous system now it's impossible! 

Just a question. Wasn't it better increase the tyre wear instead of this garbage?

The aim should be make all the strategies balanced 
25% 1 stop and 0 stops playable 
50% 2 and 1 stop
75% 3 and 2
100% 4 and 3 or 2 like it was

Who thinks run 25% like a 100% is wrong because the gaps you take in 10 laps are different from the gaps in 60 laps
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medal 5023 Community Manager
2 years 48 days ago
Hello managers,

Tonight a revision of this update will start being beta tested. It includes several fixes and improvements keeping in mind all the feedback and constructive criticism posted in this thread.
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medal 5000
2 years 48 days ago

José
Hello managers,

Tonight a revision of this update will start being beta tested. It includes several fixes and improvements keeping in mind all the feedback and constructive criticism posted in this thread.



Could we get a sneak peek of what will change? :P
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medal 5610
2 years 48 days ago

José
Hello managers,

Tonight a revision of this update will start being beta tested. It includes several fixes and improvements keeping in mind all the feedback and constructive criticism posted in this thread.



I was thinking for the Hard compound, Instead of them working above 40c maybe make them work at a lower temp? Say like 35c. In theory they should be usable then. Just an idea
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medal 5003
2 years 48 days ago

Dario

José
Hello managers,

Tonight a revision of this update will start being beta tested. It includes several fixes and improvements keeping in mind all the feedback and constructive criticism posted in this thread.



I was thinking for the Hard compound, Instead of them working above 40c maybe make them work at a lower temp? Say like 35c. In theory they should be usable then. Just an idea


They are already effective in mid to high 30’s at least in 75% no refuelling races.  Raced Bahrain a few nights ago and winning strategy was M-H-H

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medal 5000
2 years 47 days ago (Last edited by Ángel Piret González 2 years 47 days ago)
I just won a race (100%) with a S-H-H-H-H strategy. Pitting always in the lap that my tires where getting into the 50%. Hards where not only the best tyre, they weren't getting cold, the temperature needle never went into the lower half of the indicator, and the race was at 26º C. Who said H where usseles and that they couldn't get them to working temperature??
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medal 5000 Super Mod
2 years 47 days ago
Ángel
I just won a race with a S-H-H-H-H strategy. Pitting always in the lap that my tires where getting into the 50%. Hards where not only the best tyre, they weren't getting cold, the temperature needle never went into the lower half of the indicator, and the race was at 26º C. Who said H where usseles and that they couldn't get them to working temperature??


To be fair, this was a Rookie tier race and only two cars actually finished on the same lap. 4th place was 2 laps down 6th to 9th 3 laps and 10th to 31st 4 laps. So many cars were not set up which means it's not really representative of a competitive league.

The winner of the Elite tier race used S-M-M-M-S 
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medal 5000
2 years 47 days ago

Kevin
Ángel
I just won a race with a S-H-H-H-H strategy. Pitting always in the lap that my tires where getting into the 50%. Hards where not only the best tyre, they weren't getting cold, the temperature needle never went into the lower half of the indicator, and the race was at 26º C. Who said H where usseles and that they couldn't get them to working temperature??


To be fair, this was a Rookie tier race and only two cars actually finished on the same lap. 4th place was 2 laps down 6th to 9th 3 laps and 10th to 31st 4 laps. So many cars were not set up which means it's not really representative of a competitive league.

The winner of the Elite tier race used S-M-M-M-S 



Yes, but the point was that H tyre could and did deliver normal pace at normal temperatures, I recall someone saying that after 2 laps H where going downhill into ultra cold temperatures and could not be raced on
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medal 5013
2 years 47 days ago
26º C is not ultra cold, 5º C is ultra cold
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medal 5000
2 years 47 days ago

Giovanni
26º C is not ultra cold, 5º C is ultra cold



The tyre going ultra cold, not the race
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medal 5013
2 years 47 days ago
I thought you were talking about track temperature. Anyway it has an influence on tyre temps. You would not be able to manage hard tyres with 10 degrees less.
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medal 5000
2 years 47 days ago
I just finished a race in turkey 100% 23deg of track temp. no refuel.

Well at the end the optimum strat must have been :
S-S-S-S-S-M (yes you read the correct number of S).
SS/S crossover at lap2
S faster tyre even with a life of 9 laps in any case as the M were too cold already at 55% (around 10 laps) which means you anyway have to pit really maximum on lap 11 or 12 even with the M.
H got blu after 3 laps (comments from the one who tried).

I did not do the best strat but still won switching to something similar, not only for pace but mainly for fuel as with M you are in max push all the stint. I was planning S-M-M-M-S and then switched to S-M-M-S-S-S, with the last 3 stints on minimum engine mode to finish the race.
It still beat the one which was on S-M-M-M-S, and nobody was on the best strat.


In a similar way yesterday in spain with 27degC M were also limited by the temperature drop, making it usage life similar too close to the S. Having that at 15degC would maybe be ok, but 27degC in spain, before the update we almost were able to push only in the corner to avoid overheating of the M. Yesterday already at lap2 you have to push the full lap to keep the tyre temp. strange thing thow is that with the H you still manage to put them in temperature too, and the laptimes were pretty similar, and with the lower wear rate it was then getting cold later^^. But I would expect that if you have to push max with the M to keep the temperature, the H should be cold straight from the beginning.



There must be a small correction done there because with 5deg of track temp this will become a 6 or 7 stop race (or more) which is maybe a bit exagerated.

But in general I enjoy this update, as now undercut is a clear option while before the only strat was to stay in the train, overcut as much as possible and keep some boost, and it was starting to be boring.
Some corrections need to be done in some areas maybe to improve the range of track temperature in which the tyre work. Maybe to avoid a too big drop of the tyre temp with the wear too. Something maybe also on the SS as now this tyre will be used only in Monaco for the start. On most of the tracks, as the crossover with S is between 2 to 4 laps, it is totally useless. Then for sure if the S are blu with 5deg of temp that could maybe change it but I find it really extreme^^.

Anyway thank you for this update, this brought back the fun I had when I started this game with trying to understand how everything is working. A clear step in the good direction from my point of view (the train/overcut strategies on 95% of the tracks were really a non sense). keep pushing.
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medal 5000
2 years 44 days ago
Ok here's my feedback after 4 races. Please revert. I think all this stems from no refuelling. Didn't like it and especially since it not spec and varies per manager level. 

The tire changes has ruined mediums. At 26 C in Spain today many of us on Mediums lost all temps below 60% wear and cold at 50% with FULL/5 push. 

Broken. Seems this was to address no stop and 1 stop due to the change to adding no-fueling. 
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medal 5005
2 years 43 days ago
Hi all, so i public my opinion (is the same for most friends of participant into my league). Well, the impact of cliff is very evident, and we sow the drastic down performance of tyres, in the real race it isn't apply on this sequence, most type of tyres are depending on temperatures for performance and track for consum degradation. For example, there are some gp's to use most laps for medium tyres, anothers for soft tyres, but is ridiculus only use hard tyres, and sow the performance start down not at 50% but at 75%?! Really?! In real, this performance of tyres start to down performance when start graining or some another factors. 
For me, and probably for anothers players, this update it isn't reflected to the real performance and consumition tyres. I'm really sorry for this update. Is most logic have similar consumition on trakcs to real tracks, not watch in real during the tyres 20 laps, and in game during 10 laps... it isn't correct. 
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medal 5061
2 years 43 days ago

Matteo
Hi all, so i public my opinion (is the same for most friends of participant into my league). Well, the impact of cliff is very evident, and we sow the drastic down performance of tyres, in the real race it isn't apply on this sequence, most type of tyres are depending on temperatures for performance and track for consum degradation. For example, there are some gp's to use most laps for medium tyres, anothers for soft tyres, but is ridiculus only use hard tyres, and sow the performance start down not at 50% but at 75%?! Really?! In real, this performance of tyres start to down performance when start graining or some another factors. 
For me, and probably for anothers players, this update it isn't reflected to the real performance and consumition tyres. I'm really sorry for this update. Is most logic have similar consumition on trakcs to real tracks, not watch in real during the tyres 20 laps, and in game during 10 laps... it isn't correct. 


Agree... Of course it's not realistic. SS are completely wasted after 2 laps ?

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